From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25677 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2023 20:48:47 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 1 Feb 2023 20:48:47 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8642E424FA; Thu, 2 Feb 2023 06:48:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f172.google.com (mail-qt1-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86D1E424F7 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2023 06:48:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f172.google.com with SMTP id s4so18456564qtx.6 for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 12:48:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bPPqWZHqtA6ktGuFKEWlvs6ErgLq52dtu0ueA+Ug56E=; b=ptMq7AMFmaSvt9nfHPylOOGvujEv6c8xkhcvA1SUswR9q0/vxgwRt5kYrkHWMeLtgV fwyz+JSALiCaumBcybKJYIyGSjmNXkwjwkRE7tKEZuQ46Gdc/Hh0c7wYUY1rkisHaWWI d1Trc6+w/fzSXYV8VSu5mS2QZJIKqo1y4lOGfLcVBZlFOOqkMG4GtVQgx4uXYv67GA8h Njb3OsLDHDDKphXCcVpSRcFQVHg6slgDDFdhNoYUee+sZqN3pCGzXcE0shMGevRptyog fj2ra7ajT5wAy8tX1ECyRW/5gGjKdNbYRIbRx7oWpeo3Xid9B+B0ZYMIAK1o95GbAdEg EERQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=bPPqWZHqtA6ktGuFKEWlvs6ErgLq52dtu0ueA+Ug56E=; b=BwQukALJ7oq9jboAPKyze92mVgimlXsykqKhTb4m87l2sanlDat4QMfPGRxN6lPItT 4ddnfoP/iq8kNkEGeMHOmXHlVftYDQ3Nqkk246UY0iCWXnzwV6o1fqvdrcY9kqKJi0ba sfCUHpNBM3zcTo92nuJAjpkxEobnusTJ7csTXENDj8++0N9XUmN3XyuV/E55ztQ2rnR3 qqIE/IuCrsW+UeRao5xKpdEq38P4KeUKGtPYabQw5ng2BxXxXUwl2Yu6qwYr7/nddNNB ioYIH52oqHqaF11oWzwUQ38qdoeYC0PeQR+26Q0/pVP9xSYKfBxjk7ROACZYyiNB+Hrt 3jWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKU5li8KM0rq+sRVg5e3y6k6FqyBg7/1Wbxrv077Z6TJWxpMGe2+ 0DThrGAix50zCXdHLGzJAGPhOe2hlMsOc1a90GPZ32HB X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set9xebW6D+uoU6NavGeAiK83lBBBBVuktgm6jIbVpQNW9G+oPg1T/Q90e/XZrkf+4zlEE3SNS/0B3jZJAnSmYj4= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5786:0:b0:3b4:4c8b:f8a9 with SMTP id v6-20020ac85786000000b003b44c8bf8a9mr353375qta.160.1675284449636; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 12:47:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: ron minnich Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2023 12:47:18 -0800 Message-ID: To: "A. P. Garcia" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000084b6ca05f3a98e98" Message-ID-Hash: KZF4UC5HJFNIKA6DDNWRKBP6UH5QK2NH X-Message-ID-Hash: KZF4UC5HJFNIKA6DDNWRKBP6UH5QK2NH X-MailFrom: rminnich@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Douglas McIlroy , TUHS main list X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Unix game origins - stories similar to Crowther's Adventure List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000084b6ca05f3a98e98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The u-root cpu command uses 9p, and Eric Van Hensbergen recently submitted changes to Linux kernel 9p that boost throughput 10x. We continue to look at ways to make it faster. 9p lives on in several corners of the world :-) On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 12:43 PM A. P. Garcia wrote: > > Equally unfortunately, 9P, the very foundation of Plan 9, seems to > have met the same fate. > > Not at all. :-) Windows Subsystem for Linux uses 9P to share files > between the linux and windows environments on the same box: > > $ ps -ef > UID PID PPID C STIME TTY TIME CMD > root 1 0 0 Jan30 ? 00:00:00 /init > root 4 1 0 Jan30 ? 00:00:02 plan9 --control-socket > 5 --log-level 4 --server-fd 6 --pipe-fd 8 --log-truncate > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 3:23 PM Douglas McIlroy > wrote: > > > > > In the annals of UNIX gaming, have there ever been notable games that > have operated as multiple processes, perhaps using formal IPC or even just > pipes or shared files for communication between separate processes > > > > I don't know any Unix examples, but DTSS (Dartmouth Time Sharing > > System) "communication files" were used for the purpose. For a fuller > > story see https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/DTSS/commfiles.pdf > > > > > This is probably a bit more Plan 9-ish than UNIX-ish > > > > So it was with communication files, which allowed IO system calls to > > be handled in userland. Unfortunately, communication files were > > complicated and turned out to be an evolutionary dead end. They had > > had no ancestral connection to successors like pipes and Plan 9. > > Equally unfortunately, 9P, the very foundation of Plan 9, seems to > > have met the same fate. > > > > Doug > --00000000000084b6ca05f3a98e98 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The u-root cpu command uses 9p, and Eric Van Hensbergen re= cently submitted changes to Linux kernel 9p that boost throughput 10x. We c= ontinue to look at ways to make it faster.

9p lives on i= n several corners of the world :-)

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 12:43 PM A. = P. Garcia <a.phillip.garci= a@gmail.com> wrote:
> Equally unfortunately, 9P, the very foundation of Plan 9, s= eems to
have met the same fate.

Not at all. :-) Windows Subsystem for Linux uses 9P to share files
between the linux and windows environments on the same box:

$ ps -ef
UID=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PID=C2=A0 PPID=C2=A0 C STIME TTY=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TIME CMD
root=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 0 Jan30 = ?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 00:00:00 /init
root=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A04=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 0 Jan30 = ?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 00:00:02 plan9 --control-socket
5 --log-level 4 --server-fd 6 --pipe-fd 8 --log-truncate

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 3:23 PM Douglas McIlroy
<doug= las.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> > In the annals of UNIX gaming, have there ever been notable games = that have operated as multiple processes, perhaps using formal IPC or even = just pipes or shared files for communication between separate processes
>
> I don't know any Unix examples, but DTSS (Dartmouth Time Sharing > System) "communication files" were used for the purpose. For= a fuller
> story see https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~do= ug/DTSS/commfiles.pdf
>
> > This is probably a bit more Plan 9-ish than UNIX-ish
>
> So it was with communication files, which allowed IO system calls to > be handled in userland. Unfortunately, communication files were
> complicated and turned out to be an evolutionary dead end. They had > had no ancestral connection to successors like pipes and Plan 9.
> Equally unfortunately, 9P, the very foundation of Plan 9, seems to
> have met the same fate.
>
> Doug
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