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header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "tuhs@tuhs.org" , "groff@gnu.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Old troff files (1988-2007) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: "Jacobson, Doug W [E CPE] via TUHS" Reply-To: "Jacobson, Doug W [E CPE]" X-Spam: Yes Hello group: BTW:, I love all the comments and discussions this started. Using Groff (eqn+pic) + grap I was able to create a PDF of the book. It to= ok about 8 hours part of which was figuring out the syntax differences. He = had divided the book up into a file for each page or two, so 100+ files. I= think he did that, so he did not waste paper since he had to print out the= pages to see if they looked right, no display to view them. It was not per= fect but is good enough for the publisher to review. The book is on filter= s (EE book) and is full of graphs, circuits, and equations. He used pic to= draw the circuits, which was amazing. This was fun to take a forgotten ma= nuscript written by a colleague and with luck maybe getting it published wh= ile he is still alive. If the publisher wants to publish it, I'm not sure = how they will handle troff files :)=20 Doug -----Original Message----- From: G. Branden Robinson =20 Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2024 1:45 AM To: Leah Neukirchen Cc: Clem Cole ; Jacobson, Doug W [E CPE] = ; tuhs@tuhs.org; groff@gnu.org Subject: Re: [TUHS] Re: Old troff files (1988-2007) Hi Leah, At 2024-10-07T16:50:48+0200, Leah Neukirchen wrote: > "G. Branden Robinson" writes: > > Anton Shepelev wrote a summary I find admirably concise and blunt: > > > > "`grotty' is not an appendix to a pager, but a program for printing=20 > > direct to the terminal. Most terminals support those basic ANSI=20 > > control sequences, and many console programs freely use them. If a=20 > > pager cannot transparently forward them to the terminal, it is a=20 > > problem of the pager, not of `grotty', and having a broken -man=20 > > configuration by default to just to appease `less' is stupid." >=20 > I don't see the problem, less supports -R for the last 25 years... Yeah. People's ire seems to rise from the fact that grotty's default is to= assume SGR support and less's default is to not interpret SGR. I would prefer that `-R` were less's default; that would better serve the l= arger proportion of ECMA-48 video terminals using the pager versus those us= ing it with (an emulator of) hardcopy terminals. Whatever transition process needs to commence for that to happen, I think i= t should. But in the meantime it's no great effort for me (nor for most people) to al= ias 'less' to 'less -R', write a shell function to do similarly, or just ty= pe three more characters. (For those requiring accessibility assistance, shell aliases and functions,= programmable key bindings, and similar should serve as they do the merely = impatient.) Regards, Branden