From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 9025 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2023 18:59:38 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 28 Feb 2023 18:59:38 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C114227A; Wed, 1 Mar 2023 04:59:32 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1677610772; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=wDiulKe4M1cTyGKHdhcASG1BLd2XMI708GgADLg6u3I=; b=gwwLUneq6MtP2tjtBSlHLpY/n0w8lZNtY5W/1hb37eIxE9zGYOlpK/b/853fCKFIUHh8+9 DhJuFuTU5IhTqvYcRnxhO5/yMRTjujJTgY7lZQZgSIyqYm1BUqANmTu5QbamfL2lh8FE2p vPIAh7VwQ06eAgJTwxtS4O3zrUAFRsY= Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch (mail-4325.protonmail.ch [185.70.43.25]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3697842278 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2023 04:59:23 +1000 (AEST) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 18:59:14 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1677610761; x=1677869961; bh=wDiulKe4M1cTyGKHdhcASG1BLd2XMI708GgADLg6u3I=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=w7y3AVi7u+dQ0ikGj7PINkwVblThadUEse/1zJQZasJDrDu7iQYACx/S1GK0ujikE U5dp8FOaeZSo0BRw3b9JLf3sieZcVggw2CtCI2XZaWQ1RyF8k24PLpTBAi4BtY2xO9 H5EhDi+Yp9lRmMdV5CLyfGTG0CF1gAMbOfLgP0tMmEE4Cj7pHUlFl5Rr/Basn+sDrN 6HtAnJTMvbECu96geOObLRQ6cF5cH8JmfORUPaE9KBIwx7ETMInOeO1gNZid+9Vkuw J0lIMFBpA0CbQ1etZGBGM5dOOnc7ayQB763xaaW0wcl0yqiDEnqNruvN3aXeSE+10R 4pJNJARIMa+Tw== To: Jonathan Gray Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: 6AKCTUBGIH34G2HT52TSB3YTK4DEJ6JS X-Message-ID-Hash: 6AKCTUBGIH34G2HT52TSB3YTK4DEJ6JS X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Any Bell 8-bit UNIX Efforts? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco X-Spam: Yes Sounds like Idris and uNIX are the closest we get with ex-Bell personnel be= ing involved with both projects. I haven't found anything in the surviving Bell streams that suggests any 8-= bit attempts internally, and various portability documents suggest 16-bit a= nd 32-bit targets abound but nothing like a 6502 or Z80 running UNIX inside= Bell, again not that it would really be that worthwhile of an experiment a= t the time given their focus on minis. Anywho, if anything ever does show = up in my study I'll happily share the details. - Matt G. ------- Original Message ------- On Monday, February 27th, 2023 at 2:57 AM, Jonathan Gray wr= ote: > On Sat, Feb 25, 2023 at 07:48:45PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote: >=20 > > So in working on an unrelated 6502 project, I got to wondering about > > UNIX on it and other 8-bits. Did some Googling, and while I was > > able to turn up some attempts at UNIX-likes on 6502 as well as Z80, > > the only one I found that might have some Bell connection is "uNIX" > > as documented here: https://bitsavers.org/pdf/uNIX/uNIX_Jan82.pdf > >=20 > > A forum post I read suggested those involved were some former Bell > > folks from NJ. In any case, this begs the question for me: Were > > there ever any serious attempts at an 8-bit UNIX in the labs or > > Bell System at large? Certainly it would've provided quite the > > challenge without much return compared with 16 and 32-bit efforts, > > but does anyone know if, say, an LSX/Mini-UNIX-ish attempt was ever > > made at the 6502, Z80, or other 8-bits? Thanks all! > >=20 > > - Matt G. >=20 >=20 > If by Bell connection you mean people. Plauger left in 1975, > joined Yourdon Inc in 1975, started Whitesmiths Ltd in 1978[1]. > Whitesmiths created Idris, a clone of Unix. >=20 > "Idris can run comfortably where UNIX can't event fit: On an > MC68000 with no memory management hardware, for example. > On a bank-switched 8080 or Z80. Or on any LS-11 or PDP-11 > with memory management." > Whitesmiths advertisement in Computerworld, Mar 1983 [2]. >=20 > Yourdon Inc, announced Omnix in 1980, a Unix-like system for Z80[3]. > By 1981 it "had to be withdrawn when Yourdon were let down by its > developers" [4]. >=20 > [1] https://indico.cern.ch/event/318305/attachments/612388/842557/PJPlaug= er-ITSeminar-Fifty_years.pdf > [2] https://books.google.com/books?id=3DRAe4jAHXAgwC&pg=3DPA50 > [3] https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/AUUGN/AUUGN-V02.3.pdf > [4] https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1164679.1164681 >=20 > The last article is "UNIX on a Micro" by Cornelia Boldyreff. > It briefly mentions other 8-bit Unix-likes: Cromemco's Cromix, > Thinker Toys/Morrow's Micronix, Technical Systems Consultants' UniFLEX.