From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 13971 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2021 00:01:13 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 31 Jan 2021 00:01:13 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6540F9C835; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 10:01:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1299C653; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 10:00:56 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=iitbombay-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@iitbombay-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="i9WXZSCD"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 074A19C653; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 10:00:54 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oi1-f172.google.com (mail-oi1-f172.google.com [209.85.167.172]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B7299C63D for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 10:00:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oi1-f172.google.com with SMTP id w124so14513208oia.6 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:00:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iitbombay-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=FmcjLii1dl/AtGAM9gnAnrrEq2QS2+HY6F4p9gvJfA0=; b=i9WXZSCDDWDOSdq6E+ImC1yOZ5kHMR1LG/WLh05oQsg1kbJlDNEvfSE+KGrm/02p5P jVrDlOp4biZVkvWKx5I1nDLB+JfnyP2aKm7J1n2v4S68pRjc7GpgjakO4imZh/CANxEp vUYJOFjClC4yG8hlIkF3S9GCANHYtcU4l6Em+5kYB1kE3JCU+ALo8ac9oYeX1fxTRrBF MdZH67pMiWCx+21LYcvgPeaWAkzGLgbEWxu5L7/i/ZCb85zAqZ1FhEvYWmXN/7Sv/2r2 TM+WiJAQU4CgoxuimLH8w+Y5h4hE78KnBF7EZrMQ2jB7mTcrNu7AcICOU1+oFefoiS+X JjIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=FmcjLii1dl/AtGAM9gnAnrrEq2QS2+HY6F4p9gvJfA0=; b=ArJzEIFCboyeK96ForS5TkaghLvm9mbIGyuRSSfRu3m8AGRcIYKMfYZ48D25gplo31 DjiDnm3sxJaH5XkoifS8wJBqi3jU7NDoza01CSAlI656PTYQHPVEW2HKiEJXWxaRUN5T zbE9vGBt3kqeBgRgo+fnJ7pE9marEdMH3hU3Sg72kqeQ0RovIpfpIuMEvhNMJxgIAwYT hlQyjbK7P2Y9ywJgLndZmUKT0Kqg9kxJLxiJ+S/wOBDSLajoQ5fPdHho09IUSyybHZ9x ntbbmslaedt5WN+NeKpalBej4bExz5B8NGaP9jPgu/29qw+ydouoIam7v6Pa5BEB67qd S8AA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ZDBwTDY3a/6OeQpFSl2gZ6Fcc7dOKqclXg1V+3nOOJtsNkiZk lIoBA7nSYiHCnNW569F89TpQZEmLce2ThA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwNSDcZisTTfIMqtSylT71ki87lRvnS/Se6gdqXzbT7WibWFgvdyOfyuz03TBEuBjILLrcOdA== X-Received: by 2002:aca:1813:: with SMTP id h19mr1585676oih.102.1612051251926; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:00:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from bakuls-mbp.attlocal.net (172-125-77-130.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [172.125.77.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s26sm3127347otp.54.2021.01.30.16.00.50 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:00:51 -0800 (PST) From: Bakul Shah Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.40.0.2.32\)) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:00:49 -0800 References: <202101301950.10UJoWeA456408@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20210130222854.GN4227@mcvoy.com> <20210130231119.GA33905@eureka.lemis.com> <20210130231750.GQ4227@mcvoy.com> <20210130233117.GR4568@mcvoy.com> <202101302337.10UNbTMU465941@darkstar.fourwinds.com> To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-Reply-To: <202101302337.10UNbTMU465941@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.40.0.2.32) Subject: Re: [TUHS] [SPAM] Re: FreeBSD behind the times? (was: Favorite unix design principles?) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Jan 30, 2021, at 3:37 PM, Jon Steinhart wrote: >=20 > Larry McVoy writes: >> It's 20 years past the time for that re-evaluation. Seriously, Linux >> distros have been installing in X for at least 20 years, I think = maybe >> more. If they can do it.... >=20 > That doesn't mean that it's great. It's only easy to use once one = learns > the quirks, like it appearing to hang with no feedback when you hit = buttons, > and the way one has to click "done" when you're not actually done. = The > number of options is so small that I think that it would be better to = just > have the whole configuration on a single screen so that newbies = wouldn't > have to wonder where things were done and whether or not they'd be = able to > "go back" without trying it. I vastly prefer FreeBSD over Linux but Larry has a point. Presenting = *any* configuration choice to a newbie can be confusing as they often lack the knowledge to make an "informed choice". I do think your idea of a single screen config is great, but with defaults chosen! The installer should proceed after a time if the user doesn't change anything. Perhaps this = can be a useful GSOC project? But we should bring this back to design principles! Ease of use should certainly be one of them.=