From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479E828BD4 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2024 09:43:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BAF543B9E; Fri, 5 Jul 2024 17:43:00 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1720165380; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=hqjl8RLC/QiG19h0VqH47OF+xVH4xXgqgb4dr8QYw9o=; b=Jc+KeHL9fA+zzyrUeTNCC4qLtTjquSuPDBQ4SI5ReddW7ERtte1nzWCtpmB2msTfLXQ7aB mtR1xD7WP3E13xncQ2172ird9Vl1/unqqMR9oetxXx7QXd8BDWwoErpHpupictChpHArw7 xdvf9gQvKgBm1J1ip2pyDMOgQOIHlHk= Received: from mail-pf1-x436.google.com (mail-pf1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::436]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6848342A9B for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2024 17:42:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pf1-x436.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-70b05260c39so708891b3a.0 for ; Fri, 05 Jul 2024 00:42:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iitbombay-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1720165373; x=1720770173; darn=tuhs.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=hqjl8RLC/QiG19h0VqH47OF+xVH4xXgqgb4dr8QYw9o=; b=fjxeBg7WfvC2iJdJzs6aH0lMvbT+Tl4a0XvDYzc8eYJCtxeEMBMn3ti2jZi90XeBGH v8cxDklPWIqrYMJbJAU3hWElIcEwc6iZooyQ/4oKzda6rFlmkYGPCxWjR9NKJVka9bHi fOVaz2vGJW+fMS31nxb3dB7lwrStM1gcfRl0bm3/fv2ecosmPjZynHVzSYH5YtPfps6n w77HXisgu6BSsLYIxNv0yFASIKaPz2kwYhQRzZv8mc99LhasHY2hreQlDKuflHR6dK/G HD54XpSF2CauZA5XwcA0HuPHtmoSwWiAkR1XIHLsJ5GNdeQnta6a0CfboeSrj3Yug/Pc YFrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1720165373; x=1720770173; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hqjl8RLC/QiG19h0VqH47OF+xVH4xXgqgb4dr8QYw9o=; b=My+gGT+U8dxLwMeUpbvhsJkeqg1Wx2AxfR0VsNWYzXaEsiLPu7NJUytm/iWQxIK7mH I3vXVANEA19ka9T7p6sqbysN+gXpnHh3uE3LSmC1JEg0CUC44q1Jli2Xzc3dBN7T4fkE VL+GoxrEXGS5qh5RL9mYkOShffPikpeRnH/zvUAPMSOacEBA0VOa55Pvc9sk3ztnq0Wu WOhYZLHVLEZK8zEWi7WAJ4AWsJu9R64uErhcUCbCIvGWLD+Ym3Xf9ZqDbwGNy38Hdn1r ZqzwBgmsr2/9URKQ3X5DfTUXzRSPHTrc1FaDTkbCRA+/DZYQIwfwgWNOCHIeOYYM24yE otJA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUG9sJZMtXtkKGaFmXSQVh449DvAkdIxK0FF4QIiLPXq56tuoDj83+fQ1zZzKltSemAbXGTscPY5PRaISCo X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywg1M/vbgnl71BlNONv7CIrm76Y9GkzhMXPSUetgcOd5LNnGxOw XrA4Xwj/240cJLTiM9JUCTylpkh0I2bMQTQXdc82dnQQvH3BzAEvwoizwadWwA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHF/c9CCJFV2feo7+ee5ZA1TrFlsj+WxFWCXWGvG2JnjTptAAWkMncUwtwfMJ7INnsOT8vnHg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:170d:b0:705:a13b:e740 with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-70b00a7c577mr3139035b3a.19.1720165372385; Fri, 05 Jul 2024 00:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (107-215-223-229.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2e1a72fcca58-70801e54936sm13344825b3a.35.2024.07.05.00.42.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Jul 2024 00:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.600.62\)) In-Reply-To: <202407050713.4657D2cK1211103@freefriends.org> Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2024 00:42:40 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <93529CA0-7097-443C-999B-384BE6BD5683@canb.auug.org.au> <17b4e96d-724d-0394-7a95-50be7a76f695@riddermarkfarm.ca> <20240705001247.GK26356@mcvoy.com> <94C7522E-F887-4962-ACB9-27DFB3AF47E6@iitbombay.org> <202407050713.4657D2cK1211103@freefriends.org> To: Aharon Robbins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.600.62) Message-ID-Hash: XGKSKSTJ2B2T2YHH74YABGJN62JH6Z67 X-Message-ID-Hash: XGKSKSTJ2B2T2YHH74YABGJN62JH6Z67 X-MailFrom: bakul@iitbombay.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: Bakul Shah via TUHS Reply-To: Bakul Shah X-Spam: Yes I was talking about startups, while in a bootstrapping mode. Intel = stopped being that a looong time ago! But yes, I wouldn't want to play a = lawyer! In a startup there are lots of other things that need done and you of = course try to hire/contract the right people but it isn't always easy or = quick. > On Jul 5, 2024, at 12:13=E2=80=AFAM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >=20 > The flip side is when you're asked to do something you're not = competent > at. At Intel, I was once tasked in reviewing the license for something > we wanted to use. I Am Not A Lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I did my > best, but got fussed at by a higher-up for it not being good enough. >=20 > I'm sorry, but that bullsh*t --- Intel has lawyers out the wazoo, and > that's who should have been involved in reviewing that license. >=20 > Would you take your car to TV repair shop to get fixed? Same thing. >=20 > Arnold >=20 > Bakul Shah via TUHS wrote: >=20 >> A better analogy might be to compare early employees (especially >> engineers) to stem cells. They are the type of people that can (& are >> willing to) do pretty much anything but over time end up specializing >> in a few things. I have done things like look at office spaces, set = up >> furniture, order machines & office supplies, select ISP, wired up the >> place, and many sysadmin things, dealt with janitorial services, = selecting >> insurance, payroll services, debugged issues not related to = engineering, >> many interviews (tech and otherwise), dealt with vendors & = headhunters, >> set up guidelines, software systems, documentation, etc. etc. As = times >> goes on you let go and get out of people's way and focus on where = you're >> most effective (or where there is temporarily no one else). >>=20 >>> On Jul 4, 2024, at 7:24=E2=80=AFPM, Adam Thornton = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Two replies to things Larry said: >>>=20 >>> ARM or one of the smaller RISC-V flavor-sets (RISC-V is = super-modular) would be a perfectly reasonable architecture to learn = these days. After the PDP-11 but before ARM I'd'a suggested 68000. = Definitely NOT x86 and its betentacled descendants. Even so, you'd = still want to treat it (if you're learning "how do computers work?") as = if it were not superscalar, even though it obviously is. Which I guess = is pushing me into "please let me just pretend it's a PDP-11 and keep = all the scary pipelining and speculative execution and all the things = that are hard to reason about below the layer where I need to care" = territory. >>>=20 >>> And yeah, if you need me to sweep the floors, I'll sweep the floors, = but if I'm needed to sweep the floors often, there's a management = problem here, in that you can hire people who are much better at = sweeping floors than I am for much less money than you hired me to do = software engineering for. >>>=20 >>> Adam >>=20