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[69.109.130.206]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t63sm1136920qkh.6.2021.04.09.13.02.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 09 Apr 2021 13:02:55 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-FF810522-E968-44F5-8FA3-2ED416749F06 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Earl Baugh Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 16:02:54 -0400 Message-Id: References: In-Reply-To: To: Clem Cole X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18D70) Subject: Re: [TUHS] SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail-FF810522-E968-44F5-8FA3-2ED416749F06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99ve done a fair amount of research on Sun 1=E2=80=99s since I have o= ne ( and it has one of the original 68k motherboards with the original proms= ). It=E2=80=99s on my list to create a Sun 1 registry along the lines of t= he Apple 1 registry. (https://www.apple1registry.com/) Right now, I can positively identify 24 machines that still exist. Odd seri= al numbering makes it very hard to know exactly how many they made. =20 Cisco was sued by Stanford over the Sun 1. =46rom what I read, they made of= f with some Stanford property ( SW and HW ). Wikipedia mentions this ( and I= have some supporting documents as well ). They ended up licensing from Stan= ford as part of the settlement. =46rom what I=E2=80=99ve gathered VLSI lice= nsed the design from Stanford not Andy directly. However the only produced a= few machines and Andy wasn=E2=80=99t all that happy with that. That was one= of the impetus is to getting sun formed and licensing the same design. I a= lso believe another company ( or 2 )licensed the design but either didn=E2=80= =99t produce any or very very few machines.=20 You can tell a difference between VLSI boards and the Sun Microsystems board= s because the SUN is all capitalized on the VLSI boards ( and is Sun on the o= thers ). At least on the few I=E2=80=99ve seen pictures of.=20 The design was also licensed to SGI =E2=80=94 I=E2=80=99ve seen a prototype S= GI board that=E2=80=99s the same thing with a larger PCB to allow some exten= sions.=20 And the original CPU boards didn=E2=80=99t have an MMU. They could only run S= un OS up to 0.9, I believe was the version. When Bill Joy got there, again f= rom what I=E2=80=99ve gathered, he wanted to bring more of the BSD code over= and they had to change the system board. This is why you see the Sun 1/150= model number ( as an upgrade to the original Sun 1/100 designation ). The r= ack mounted Sun 1/120 was changed to the 1/170. The same upgraded CPU board w= as used in the Sun 2/120 at least initially. =20 The original Sun OS wasn=E2=80=99t BSD based. It was a V32 variant I believ= e. And the original CPU boards were returned to Sun, I believe as part of t= he upgrade from the 1/100 to the 1/150. ( Given people had just paid $10,000= for a machine having to replace the entire machine would=E2=80=99ve been ba= d from a customer perspective). Sun did board upgrade trade ups after this (= I worked at a company and we purchased an upgrade to upgrade a Sun 3/140 to= a Sun 3/110 =E2=80=94 the upgrade consisted of a CPU board swap and a diffe= rent badge for the box )=20 Sun then, from when I can tell, sold the original CPU boards to a German com= pany that was producing a V32 system. They changed out the PROMs but you ca= n see the Sun logo and part numbers on the boards=20 I could go on and on about this topic =F0=9F=99=82 A Sun 1 was a =E2=80=9Cbucket list=E2=80=9D machine for me - and I am still h= appy that some friends were willing to take a 17 hour road trip from Atlanta= to Minnesota to pick mine up. =F0=9F=99=82 After unparking the drive heads it booted up, first try ( I was only willing= to try that without a bunch of testing work because I have some spare power= supplies and a couple plastic tubs of multi bus boards that came with it =F0= =9F=99=82)=20 Earl=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 9, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Clem Cole wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >=20 >=20 >> On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:10 AM Tom Lyon wrote: >> Prior to Sun, Andy had a company called VLSI Technology, Inc. which licen= sed SUN designs to 5-10 companies, including Forward Technology and CoData, I= IRC. The SUN IPR effectively belonged to Andy, but I don't know what kind o= f legal arrangement he had with Stanford. But the design was not generally= public, and relied on CAD tools only extant on the Stanford PDP-10. Cisco d= id start with the SUN-1 processor, though whether they got it from Andy or d= irect from Stanford is not known to me. When Cisco started (1984), the Sun-= 1 was long dead already at Sun. > Bits passing in the night -- this very much is what I remember, expereince= d.=20 > =E1=90=A7 --Apple-Mail-FF810522-E968-44F5-8FA3-2ED416749F06 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99ve done a fair amount of research= on Sun 1=E2=80=99s since I have one ( and it has one of the original 68k m= otherboards with the original proms ).  It=E2=80=99s on my list to crea= te a Sun 1 registry along the lines of the Apple 1 registry. (https://www.apple1registry.com/)
Right= now, I can positively identify 24 machines that still exist.  Odd seri= al numbering makes it very hard to know exactly how many they made.  

Cisco was sued by Stanford over the Sun 1.  =46rom= what I read, they made off with some Stanford property ( SW and HW ). Wikip= edia mentions this ( and I have some supporting documents as well ). They en= ded up licensing from Stanford as part of the settlement.  =46rom what I= =E2=80=99ve gathered VLSI licensed the design from Stanford not Andy directl= y. However the only produced a few machines and Andy wasn=E2=80=99t all that= happy with that. That was one of the impetus is to getting sun formed and l= icensing the same design.  I also believe another company ( or 2 )licen= sed the design but either didn=E2=80=99t produce any or very very few machin= es. 

You can tell a difference between VLSI bo= ards and the Sun Microsystems boards because the SUN is all capitalized on t= he VLSI boards ( and is Sun on the others ).  At least on the few I=E2=80= =99ve seen pictures of. 

The design was also l= icensed to SGI =E2=80=94 I=E2=80=99ve seen a prototype SGI board that=E2=80=99= s the same thing with a larger PCB to allow some extensions. 

And the original CPU boards didn=E2=80=99t have an MMU. They= could only run Sun OS up to 0.9, I believe was the version. When Bill Joy g= ot there, again from what I=E2=80=99ve gathered, he wanted to bring more of t= he BSD code over and they had to change the system board.  This is why y= ou see the Sun 1/150 model number ( as an upgrade to the original Sun 1/100 d= esignation ).  The rack mounted Sun 1/120 was changed to the 1/170. The= same upgraded CPU board was used in the Sun 2/120 at least initially.  = ; 

The original Sun OS wasn=E2=80=99t BSD base= d.  It was a V32 variant I believe.  And the original CPU boards w= ere returned to Sun, I believe as part of the upgrade from the 1/100 to the 1= /150. ( Given people had just paid $10,000 for a machine having to replace t= he entire machine would=E2=80=99ve been bad from a customer perspective). &n= bsp;Sun did board upgrade trade ups after this ( I worked at a company and w= e purchased an upgrade to upgrade a Sun 3/140 to a Sun 3/110 =E2=80=94 the u= pgrade consisted of a CPU board swap and a different badge for the box )&nbs= p;

Sun then, from when I can tell, sold the origina= l CPU boards to a German company that was producing a V32 system.  They= changed out the PROMs but you can see the Sun logo and part numbers on the b= oards 

I could go on and on about this topic =F0= =9F=99=82
A Sun 1 was a =E2=80=9Cbucket list=E2=80=9D machine for m= e - and I am still happy that some friends were willing to take a 17 hour ro= ad trip from Atlanta to Minnesota to pick mine up.  =F0=9F=99=82
<= div>
After unparking the drive heads it booted up, first try (= I was only willing to try that without a bunch of testing work because I ha= ve some spare power supplies and a couple plastic tubs of multi bus boards t= hat came with it =F0=9F=99=82) 


Earl 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 9, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Clem Cole <c= lemc@ccc.com> wrote:

=
=EF=BB=BF


On Fri= , Apr 9, 2021 at 10:10 AM Tom Lyon <pugs= @ieee.org> wrote:
Prior to Sun, Andy ha= d a company called VLSI Technology, Inc. which licensed SUN designs to 5-10 c= ompanies, including Forward Technology and CoData, IIRC.  The SUN IPR e= ffectively belonged to Andy, but I don't know what kind of legal arrangement=  he had with Stanford.   But the design was not generally pub= lic, and relied on CAD tools only extant on the Stanford PDP-10.  Cisco= did start with the SUN-1 processor, though whether they got it from Andy or= direct from Stanford is not known to me.  When Cisco started (1984), t= he Sun-1 was long dead already at Sun.
Bits p= assing in the night -- this very much is what I remember, expereinced. 
3D""=E1=90=A7
= --Apple-Mail-FF810522-E968-44F5-8FA3-2ED416749F06--