[pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?

[pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?

[Fred N. van Kempen]

Ow, c'mon.  In *australia*, how hard can it be to find or make 
space for that priceless collection?  Geez!

Given the nearly-complete collection of DEC systems, HP-Oz should
be deeply ashamed if they don't pitch in, along with other vendors
and local support techs.

We can't expect all companies to maintain a collection that reflects
their history (for tech-practical reasons alone), but we *should* be
able to expect them to help others who do it "for" them...



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Toby Thain [mailto:tobyhome at telegraphics.com.au]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 2:08 PM
> To: Dave Horsfall
> Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: History of 32-bit UNIX (was History of 2 BSD)
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/11/2003, at 3:01 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Dennis Ritchie wrote:
> >
> >>> I believe the Wollongong port predated the one at Bell 
> Labs.  Peter
> >>> Gray tells me he still has the original machine they 
> used, and he'd
> >>> like to find a museum-like place to keep it.  No idea whether it
> >>> runs.  Greg Rose should know a lot more about this 
> matter.  Greg, are
> >>> you out there?
> >>
> >> Having the original Wollongong Interdata 7/32 might
> >> be interesting to the Computer History museum, though
> >> it might be expensive to transport it across the Pacific.
> >
> > Perhaps this would be a better home for it:
> >
> > http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/museum.htm
> 
> It would not be a safe home until they have solved their eviction  
> problem (now due for mid-Dec 2003):
> http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/19/1053196515142.html
> and http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/
> 
> Given the significance of the machine in question, IMHO it would be  
> safer in care of private individuals until an Australian computer  
> museum is funded -
> http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/ 
> ACMS%20Prospectus%20rec%20on%2005Feb2003.htm
> 
> Toby
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 

[pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?

[Dave Horsfall]

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:

> Ow, c'mon.  In *australia*, how hard can it be to find or make
> space for that priceless collection?  Geez!

We're slowly moving over to a "user pays" system, I'm afraid.

-- Dave

[pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?

[Peter Jeremy]

On 2003-Nov-11 14:18:24 +0100, "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl> wrote:
>Ow, c'mon.  In *australia*, how hard can it be to find or make 
>space for that priceless collection?  Geez!

Wide open spaces aren't necessarily ideal for storing historical
computers.  You need to store them in a controlled environment to
preserve them and this costs money.

And Australian governments don't seem to place a great value on
history:  Australia is one of the pioneering space nations.  We were
one of the first countries to launch our own satellite.  The launching
sites are recognized as part of Australia's heritage by organisation
such as the Institute of Engineers, Australia.  Our Armed Forces (with
the support of our Federal Government) uses those same launching sites
for target practice.

As far as private companies - it mostly comes down to the beancounters
demanding to know how spending money on preserving obsolete equipment
will help the bottom line.  The Corporate headquarters also generally
see outpost subsidiaries solely in terms on how much cash flows into
the corporate coffers.

On the positive side, Australia has managed to preserve the last
first generation computer extant anywhere (CSIRAC, built in the late
1940's).

Peter

[pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?

[Johnny Billquist]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Peter Jeremy wrote:

> On the positive side, Australia has managed to preserve the last
> first generation computer extant anywhere (CSIRAC, built in the late
> 1940's).

Not to demean that effort, but don't the Germans have a Z4 still working
in a museum? That would mean something like 1942.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

[pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?

[Jochen Kunz]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 750 bytes --]

On 2003.11.13 00:06 Johnny Billquist wrote:

> Not to demean that effort, but don't the Germans have a Z4 still
> working in a museum? That would mean something like 1942.
1942 would be the Z3, the first computer ever. The Z3 that is in the
Deutsches Museum is AFAIK a rebuild of the original one. (Rebuild under
the supervision of Konrad Zuse himself.) I don't know if the Z4 is still
around. Google for "Konrad Zuse" and / or his son "Horst Zuse". Horst
Zuse has put much effort in documenting the work of his father.

I know that there is a Zuse Z23 in Karlsruhe. It was build in 1956,
based on electron tubes, core and drum memory and it is still fully
functional!
-- 


tschüß,
       Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

[pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?

[robinb]

jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> On 2003.11.13 00:06 Johnny Billquist wrote:
> 
> > Not to demean that effort, but don't the Germans have a Z4 still
> > working in a museum? That would mean something like 1942.
> 1942 would be the Z3, the first computer ever. The Z3 that is in the
> Deutsches Museum is AFAIK a rebuild of the original one. (Rebuild under
> the supervision of Konrad Zuse himself.) I don't know if the Z4 is still
> around. Google for "Konrad Zuse" and / or his son "Horst Zuse". Horst
> Zuse has put much effort in documenting the work of his father.
> 
> I know that there is a Zuse Z23 in Karlsruhe. It was build in 1956,
> based on electron tubes, core and drum memory and it is still fully
> functional!
> -- 
I searched and found, very very interesting.  Zuse's statement that the Colossus team and himself had been going down similar paths sounds very much like Leibnitz and Newton over Calculus :-)

About 10 years ago I went into the National Air and Space museum in Washington and they had a wind from a Henschel guided missile from World War 2.  They stated that it was built using some of the first computer controlled plant and I always wondered what it was, well now I know.

Again, this is very interesting and I am astounded that it isn't widely known or advertised.  

Robin

[pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?

[Gregg C Levine]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2443 bytes --]

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Robin, are you thinking of the V-1 platform? Because that one was
pretty capable for a primitive cruise missile weapons platform. That's
the only one I can think of that fits your description, after all I
did visit the museum a longish time ago, as well.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On
> Behalf Of robinb at ruffnready.co.uk
> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 5:27 AM
> To: Jochen Kunz
> Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?
> 
> jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> > On 2003.11.13 00:06 Johnny Billquist wrote:
> >
> > > Not to demean that effort, but don't the Germans have a Z4 still
> > > working in a museum? That would mean something like 1942.
> > 1942 would be the Z3, the first computer ever. The Z3 that is in
the
> > Deutsches Museum is AFAIK a rebuild of the original one. (Rebuild
under
> > the supervision of Konrad Zuse himself.) I don't know if the Z4 is
still
> > around. Google for "Konrad Zuse" and / or his son "Horst Zuse".
Horst
> > Zuse has put much effort in documenting the work of his father.
> >
> > I know that there is a Zuse Z23 in Karlsruhe. It was build in
1956,
> > based on electron tubes, core and drum memory and it is still
fully
> > functional!
> > --
> I searched and found, very very interesting.  Zuse's statement that
the Colossus team
> and himself had been going down similar paths sounds very much like
Leibnitz and
> Newton over Calculus :-)
> 
> About 10 years ago I went into the National Air and Space museum in
Washington
> and they had a wind from a Henschel guided missile from World War 2.
They
> stated that it was built using some of the first computer controlled
plant and I always
> wondered what it was, well now I know.
> 
> Again, this is very interesting and I am astounded that it isn't
widely known or
> advertised.
> 
> Robin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

[pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?

[robinb]

hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net wrote:
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> Robin, are you thinking of the V-1 platform? Because that one was
> pretty capable for a primitive cruise missile weapons platform. That's
> the only one I can think of that fits your description, after all I
> did visit the museum a longish time ago, as well.
No,
On the first floor there used to be (could still be there but it was a while ago) a room concerning computing.  In there was a wing, with the skin removed to show the structure, of a Henschel anti-ship missile.  These were dropped by bombers and then guided in by radio.  This was labeled up AFAIR as being manufactured by a primitive CNC system.  Looking at the various web pages from Zuse's writings he produced a measurement system for these so that they could be produced using low tech machining.

Robin

> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org
> [mailto:pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On
> > Behalf Of robinb at ruffnready.co.uk
> > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 5:27 AM
> > To: Jochen Kunz
> > Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> > Subject: Re: [pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?
> > 
> > jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> > > On 2003.11.13 00:06 Johnny Billquist wrote:
> > >
> > > > Not to demean that effort, but don't the Germans have a Z4 still
> > > > working in a museum? That would mean something like 1942.
> > > 1942 would be the Z3, the first computer ever. The Z3 that is in
> the
> > > Deutsches Museum is AFAIK a rebuild of the original one. (Rebuild
> under
> > > the supervision of Konrad Zuse himself.) I don't know if the Z4 is
> still
> > > around. Google for "Konrad Zuse" and / or his son "Horst Zuse".
> Horst
> > > Zuse has put much effort in documenting the work of his father.
> > >
> > > I know that there is a Zuse Z23 in Karlsruhe. It was build in
> 1956,
> > > based on electron tubes, core and drum memory and it is still
> fully
> > > functional!
> > > --
> > I searched and found, very very interesting.  Zuse's statement that
> the Colossus team
> > and himself had been going down similar paths sounds very much like
> Leibnitz and
> > Newton over Calculus :-)
> > 
> > About 10 years ago I went into the National Air and Space museum in
> Washington
> > and they had a wind from a Henschel guided missile from World War 2.
> They
> > stated that it was built using some of the first computer controlled
> plant and I always
> > wondered what it was, well now I know.
> > 
> > Again, this is very interesting and I am astounded that it isn't
> widely known or
> > advertised.
> > 
> > Robin
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
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>