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[98.165.124.124]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n29-20020a635c5d000000b0048f8efc53a6sm2850081pgm.80.2023.01.02.09.56.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Jan 2023 09:56:02 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.300.101.1.3\)) From: Adam Thornton In-Reply-To: <20230102174304.GM25547@mcvoy.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 10:55:51 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <52FB6638-AEFF-4A4F-8C2E-32089D577BA0@planet.nl> <464819f0-d2f6-2a60-6481-a194f4428b4d@case.edu> <20221230200246.GW5825@mcvoy.com> <88f83b4c-b3f9-ed87-b2fa-560fb369742a@makerlisp.com> <20221231035931.GG5825@mcvoy.com> <528f0c53-ccc2-88a1-5a7b-120362c648dd@mhorton.net> <20230102165120.GK25547@mcvoy.com> <20230102174304.GM25547@mcvoy.com> To: Larry McVoy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.300.101.1.3) Message-ID-Hash: EC3ZS2CA4JLAHDD6UAA47BS5GH24O5FU X-Message-ID-Hash: EC3ZS2CA4JLAHDD6UAA47BS5GH24O5FU X-MailFrom: athornton@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: > On Jan 2, 2023, at 10:43 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: >=20 > When you get to the commercial world, you'd be stunned to see how long > old machines last. If they are solving some problem, and they aren't > broken, nobody replaces them. I'll bet you anything there are still > SCO registers out there, I'll bet there are still PDP-11s out there. >=20 > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well, sure, but this also comes down to at what point is losing some = customers because they refuse to upgrade to something from this = millenium worth the cost you would incur to be able to support their = environment? To be fair, stuff exactly like that was part of the bread-and-butter of = Sine Nomine while I was there (for all I know, still is), and I kinda = feel like that's the right answer: the places running old technology = know they're doing so, and maybe they're doing so for good reasons. But = finding people willing and able to keep new stuff working on those = machines and OSes does get more expensive over time. So there's an = aftermarket in consultancies that are willing to take over maintenance = of things their vendors have abandoned. No company concerned with its = long-term survival *should* do that without, in parallel, pursuing an = exit strategy towards something actually-maintainable at = not-exponentially-increasing cost, but of course the inability to look = beyond the next quarter is a fundamental flaw of financialization-driven = capitalism. And no one is saying you can't keep running your SCO cash registers = forever on your own recognizance, but when they break, you get to keep = both pieces, and if they break in such a way that suddenly your entire = operation is being held hostage by some Russian organized crime cartel, = well, you should have priced that risk appropriately. Adam=