From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 18481 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2023 17:34:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Jan 2023 17:34:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED0542474; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 03:34:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pf1-f172.google.com (mail-pf1-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44DE942473 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 03:34:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pf1-f172.google.com with SMTP id c9so14147260pfj.5 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 09:34:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=kkuYfBL+8vhtYocttI5H0SjFfDZQ2GJTk0c1CmTAQ4k=; b=M1+nvZhHkowaDqvCDSEjpxgyX2rymbwP5livbYlqwzOpcWqHVjLnAnkGijbNNz2VQI VyiqwgHF+d/bsTr3WCfK0xzlo0leFgXYNwYlgKwcwtHdApNyPQ09jfCIX4zTZGQoFvbx iyXTGQq4vTU5BUlG7brrlRgl/e0Diey/7wAeGdBoM/JYYGVoz/yzm9RMGWCbk6DRxQ30 wmLZjm5N4XvXj9WBJ98XzHBWOhOxhZ76ky/BK7hVngBBxxPHwwfR7UuRHgDqT/CpQ92g 749dgGR46xSTu8h4qCDvfgq/Bcb483sOdm7v4R33JmPvOCxtp767EQcV72Nla5gRmx0j 8SLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=kkuYfBL+8vhtYocttI5H0SjFfDZQ2GJTk0c1CmTAQ4k=; b=cPSMwefVC4GKTbrSEBm9d3E9pd9eo6bv0S74+AvliyCfHXO5EcGGhKlfp6wMGu+NNj T9sv/wEOWpaxZG9ySMtXzm2pkygv4YbsiCWht6NG/DhjJBEN8dArsd/2niWZV1q3+469 GWC9rf7yJ7GsrmxCdzba3lT6DdV0feAVUVXH+xyZArLuKEqpTGpYm6tGr2wWCMnfVCS7 cDfeAD/D2MoTMAZZyLLE28rnnZuN+znirJQoQMVggROOYEw92y9H4BVCebLKW92lCSFO d5UdA0U9vt8eHHIguv6zBj95vzDF6GbyrFzqE70HUElcJDGTv5b3nkpyukGveCwBUWmg Uc8A== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqL8z1fMRCcumvffB6kEhmzXSnHTWtQcHir6La6JLPKrguZaWQ0 UxsYyhYAvaQlNgjmJwwZtWmeoykExMQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvGjPCuzi6EvqUHkdWOZ/ETG8a16bkD97za/VF8pp0GtKtw8GdvAoBshrhKckNeBgIJB3pgGQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:4c82:b0:582:8d34:7253 with SMTP id eb2-20020a056a004c8200b005828d347253mr2886344pfb.20.1672680782522; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 09:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (ip98-165-124-124.ph.ph.cox.net. [98.165.124.124]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o3-20020aa79783000000b0057726bd7335sm13380919pfp.121.2023.01.02.09.33.01 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Jan 2023 09:33:02 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.300.101.1.3\)) From: Adam Thornton In-Reply-To: <20230102165120.GK25547@mcvoy.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 10:32:50 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <52FB6638-AEFF-4A4F-8C2E-32089D577BA0@planet.nl> <464819f0-d2f6-2a60-6481-a194f4428b4d@case.edu> <20221230200246.GW5825@mcvoy.com> <88f83b4c-b3f9-ed87-b2fa-560fb369742a@makerlisp.com> <20221231035931.GG5825@mcvoy.com> <528f0c53-ccc2-88a1-5a7b-120362c648dd@mhorton.net> <20230102165120.GK25547@mcvoy.com> To: Larry McVoy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.300.101.1.3) Message-ID-Hash: TNSKHGSHYG3WY5TB7Y5ULSJKZFP657DD X-Message-ID-Hash: TNSKHGSHYG3WY5TB7Y5ULSJKZFP657DD X-MailFrom: athornton@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: > On Jan 2, 2023, at 9:51 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: >=20 > On Mon, Jan 02, 2023 at 11:25:06AM -0500, Clem Cole wrote: >> Like Larry, I have always been a meany and I have tried to make = darned sure >> my folks (even to this day - we will see how long that last after I = retire) >> use V7 syntax scripts - not bash, not even korn. =20 > And as we shipped > scripts that people expected to work, you can't fix their /bin/sh. >=20 > I won that argument over and over and eventually we all instinctively > wrote portable scripts. I feel like after POSIX.2 had had a few years to settle, it was OK to = use *that* as your scripting language (I particularly like $() rather = than backticks, because of nestability, although you can certainly argue = that if you're regularly nesting your interpolations, it's the design = that's broken, not the specific syntax of the command). At least as long as you put a very visible comment right at the top = saying "We're assuming POSIX shell." But of course the "after it had had a few years to settle" is doing a = lot of lifting there. During the Unix Wars, yeah, clearly using v7 sh = as lowest-common-denominator was the right choice. After the = establishment of Linux Hegemony sometime in the early 2000s, I think I = remember that you could pretty much count on everyone at least providing = a POSIX shell, even if it wasn't the default. (But of course by then, = "everyone" that wasn't Linux or OS X was already down to more-or-less = Sun, IBM, HP, and DEC/Compaq.) These days, if you have a vendor-supplied shell script that DOESN'T work = correctly under a POSIX /bin/sh, that should be treated as a defect. Adam=