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X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org" Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_D7C3932B-BC96-404A-91CF-C22927526B25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 2019, Aug 28, at 2:56 PM, Clem Cole wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 1:32 PM Larry McVoy > wrote: > Perhaps Clem can shed some light on why DEC did a MIPS machine?=20 > I did not work for DEC at the time and obviously, I was not in the = room, so this is what I can say I picked up. Supnik would be a better = person to ask. That said, some things I do know about the time/and = behinds the scene. > Jupiter and Prism had been canceled.=20 > Alpha did not yet exist (and would not for another 2 years) > Cutler had left for Microsoft etc.. > Sun was clearly on its game > The VAX on a Chip just was not cutting it > RISC architectures were the hot item > Here is where I get fuzzy on details. > I believe a prototype (i.e. skunk works) MIPS was running at WRL in = Palo Alto running Ultrix and DEC windows, I think using some sort of = cheap ??PC?? chassis. > But the performance of the prototype was excellent and cost was = cheaper than the current vax products. > Somebody sr, maybe Bob, shows this to Sr management and got the money = to productize it. The issue as making an official Ultrix for it was I = know a big one. Ultimately, DEC farmed that work out to us at LCC (with = us eventually taking over all of Ultrix - MIPS and Vax). I was at the Digital Systems Research Center in Palo Alto between 1984 = and 1989. Also located in Palo Alto were the Western Research Lab (run = by Forest Baskett), Workstation Systems Engineering, and the West Coast = Systems Lab. Steve Bourne was at one of these. All were within a few blocks of each other and easy walking distance to = =E2=80=9CLouis=E2=80=99=E2=80=9D chinese restaurant, whose official name = was =E2=80=9CThe Little Restaurant=E2=80=9D. The rule was that you = could not go to Louis' for lunch if you had eaten lunch there the day = before. =20 At the time, SRC was building multiprocessor research workstations with = VAX chips (the Firefly, I did some of the hardware) and WRL was building = an ECL RISC machine (the Titan). WSE was started, I think, to = commercialize a multiprocessor VAX workstation something like the = Firefly. WSL was a software group working on window systems and things = like multimedia software. The WSE machines became the VAXStation 3520 and 3540, code named FireFox = (showing the ancestry I guess!). The folks at WSE, I think with egging on from WRL, who were in the same = building, then built the R2000 based =E2=80=9CPMAX=E2=80=9D and then the = R3000 based =E2=80=9C3MAX=E2=80=9D. These were rather nice machines for = 1990 and 1991. They also invented a flat attaching I/O card format = =E2=80=9CTurboChannel=E2=80=9D. The impression I has was that the = RS6000 and the PA-RISC and the various MIPS machines put a large scare = into Digital. I don=E2=80=99t know how the politics worked for this. The west coast = was a long long way from Maynard. Larry --Apple-Mail=_D7C3932B-BC96-404A-91CF-C22927526B25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 2019, Aug 28, at 2:56 PM, Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> = wrote:



On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 1:32 PM Larry = McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> = wrote:
Perhaps Clem can shed some light on = why DEC did a MIPS machine? 
I did not work for DEC = at the time and obviously, I was not in the room, so this is what I can = say I picked up.  Supnik would be a better person to ask.  = That said, some things I do know about the time/and behinds the = scene.
  • Jupiter and = Prism had been canceled. 
  • Alpha did = not yet exist (and would not for = another 2 years)
  • Cutler had = left for Microsoft etc..
  • Sun was clearly on = its game
  • The VAX on a = Chip just was not cutting it
  • RISC architectures = ;were the hot item
Here is where I get = fuzzy on details.
  • I believe a = prototype (i.e. skunk = works) MIPS was running at WRL in Palo Alto = running Ultrix and DEC windows, I think using some sort of cheap ??PC?? = chassis.
  • But the performance of = the prototype was excellent and cost was cheaper than the current vax = products.
  • Somebody sr, maybe Bob, = shows this to Sr management and got the money to productize it.  = The issue as making an official Ultrix for it was I know a big = one.  Ultimately, DEC farmed that work out to us at LCC (with us = eventually taking over all of Ultrix - MIPS and = Vax).
I = was at the Digital Systems Research Center in Palo Alto between 1984 and = 1989.  Also located in Palo Alto were the Western Research Lab (run = by Forest Baskett), Workstation Systems Engineering, and the West Coast = Systems Lab.  Steve Bourne was at one of these.

All were within a few blocks of each = other and easy walking distance to =E2=80=9CLouis=E2=80=99=E2=80=9D = chinese restaurant, whose official name was =E2=80=9CThe Little = Restaurant=E2=80=9D.  The rule was that you could not go to Louis' = for lunch if you had eaten lunch there the day before.  

At the time, SRC was = building multiprocessor research workstations with VAX chips (the = Firefly, I did some of the hardware) and WRL was building an ECL RISC = machine (the Titan).   WSE was started, I think, to commercialize a = multiprocessor VAX workstation something like the Firefly.  WSL was = a software group working on window systems and things like multimedia = software.

The = WSE machines became the VAXStation 3520 and 3540, code named FireFox = (showing the ancestry I guess!).
The folks at WSE, = I think with egging on from WRL, who were in the same building, then = built the R2000 based =E2=80=9CPMAX=E2=80=9D and then the R3000 based = =E2=80=9C3MAX=E2=80=9D.  These were rather nice machines for 1990 = and 1991.  They also invented a flat attaching I/O card format = =E2=80=9CTurboChannel=E2=80=9D.  The impression I has was that the = RS6000 and the PA-RISC and the various MIPS machines put a large scare = into Digital.

I = don=E2=80=99t know how the politics worked for this.  The west = coast was a long long way from Maynard.

Larry

= --Apple-Mail=_D7C3932B-BC96-404A-91CF-C22927526B25--