From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 506d3290 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 67942A1FA0; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:57:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56826A1C5D; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:56:37 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=eschatologist.net header.i=@eschatologist.net header.b="iUlBJgmy"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 71EBCA1C5D; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:56:35 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 337 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 11:56:34 AEST Received: from insect.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (insect.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.93]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAD8BA1C5C for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 11:56:34 +1000 (AEST) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|cmhanson@eschatologist.net Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC58283318; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 01:50:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a24.g.dreamhost.com (unknown [100.96.20.98]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 12F132832E9; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 01:50:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|cmhanson@eschatologist.net Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a24.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.16.2); Sun, 06 Jan 2019 01:50:56 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|cmhanson@eschatologist.net X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Company-Dime: 5a88c4c712109093_1546739456196_1628642958 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1546739456196:2919020972 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1546739456195 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a24.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a24.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8717F935; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 17:50:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=eschatologist.net; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s= eschatologist.net; bh=nyvYIlunNI2Wpah8ZxvIgwpYxDg=; b=iUlBJgmy8M bSqHjmGTyxckUyMwNCC6Nm9NwDD0SJxWgL/65yY5ygDJWxRJsuDlIrKwlVQEguxA Q/+nLFZ+44SrcdfcHGmgiUINK6xC56a/tIgB6MT5GAxgxZQ31C+89QMQg+92V+O0 cAbUM4PlfS92DBiyGhYYCVs3oZ1SfC2ys= Received: from [10.0.1.12] (c-76-126-113-109.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.113.109]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: cmhanson@eschatologist.net) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a24.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D9CA87F92C; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 17:50:54 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5606844A-9B76-457F-A70C-62A5AC9E72B5 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a24 From: Chris Hanson X-Mailer: iPad Mail (16C50) In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 17:50:53 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <201901050226.x052QigU089781@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <22BA2F17-310F-4396-A35A-23E2D1130018@ronnatalie.com> <20190105153133.GA24497@mcvoy.com> To: "A. P. Garcia" X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtledrvdeggdegtdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpegtggfuhffojgffgffkfhfvsegrjehmrehhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpeevhhhrihhsucfjrghnshhonhcuoegtmhhhrghnshhonhesvghstghhrghtohhlohhgihhsthdrnhgvtheqnecukfhppeejiedruddviedruddufedruddtleenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplgdutddrtddruddruddvngdpihhnvghtpeejiedruddviedruddufedruddtledprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthhepvehhrhhishcujfgrnhhsohhnuceotghmhhgrnhhsohhnsegvshgthhgrthholhhoghhishhtrdhnvghtqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegtmhhhrghnshhonhesvghstghhrghtohhlohhgihhsthdrnhgvthdpnhhrtghpthhtoheprgdrphhhihhllhhiphdrghgrrhgtihgrsehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd Subject: Re: [TUHS] Isaacson v Unix X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail-5606844A-9B76-457F-A70C-62A5AC9E72B5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jan 5, 2019, at 9:01 AM, A. P. Garcia wrote:= >=20 > On Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 10:39 AM Larry McVoy > +1. RMS always talked big but the real work was done by other people. >> GCC was Tiemann at Sun and then at Cygnus, groff was James Clark, >> etc. I think RMS hacked on emacs but not much else. >=20 >=20 > I'm going to refrain from either praising or disparaging the man. I think t= he book Hackers by Steven Levy does a good job of describing him and how the= idea for the GNU project came about. Dan Weinreb, who was in charge of Symbolics at the time, strongly disputed t= he RMS (and =E2=80=9CHackers=E2=80=9D) story of GNU=E2=80=99s inspiration fr= om what Symbolics =E2=80=9Cdid to=E2=80=9D the AI Lab. By Weinreb=E2=80=99s account, Symbolics hired relatively few people away fro= m the Lab, and RMS wasn=E2=80=99t simply rewriting Symbolics=E2=80=99 enhan= cements (which were shared with the Lab, and Symbolics=E2=80=99 customers of= course) for the MIT and LMI environments, he was actually caught copying th= eir code directly. =E2=80=94 Chris --Apple-Mail-5606844A-9B76-457F-A70C-62A5AC9E72B5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jan 5, 2019, at 9:01 AM, A. P. Garcia &l= t;a.phillip.garcia@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 10:39 AM Larry McVoy &= lt;lm@mcvoy.com wrote:
+1.  RMS always talked big b= ut the real work was done by other people.
GCC was Tiemann at Sun and then at Cygnus, groff was James Clark,
etc.  I think RMS hacked on emacs but not much else.

I'm going to refrain= from either praising or disparaging the man. I think the book Hackers by St= even Levy does a good job of describing him and how the idea for the GNU pro= ject came about.

Dan Weinr= eb, who was in charge of Symbolics at the time, strongly disputed the RMS (a= nd =E2=80=9CHackers=E2=80=9D) story of GNU=E2=80=99s inspiration from what S= ymbolics =E2=80=9Cdid to=E2=80=9D the AI Lab.

By We= inreb=E2=80=99s account, Symbolics hired relatively few people away from the= Lab, and  RMS wasn=E2=80=99t simply rewriting Symbolics=E2=80=99 enhan= cements (which were shared with the Lab, and Symbolics=E2=80=99 customers of= course) for the MIT and LMI environments, he was actually caught copying th= eir code directly.

  =E2=80=94 Chris

= --Apple-Mail-5606844A-9B76-457F-A70C-62A5AC9E72B5--