From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 29315 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2022 09:13:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 10 Nov 2022 09:13:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 488024025D; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 19:12:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (pb-sasl1.pobox.com [64.147.108.66]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6502740131 for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 19:12:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-sasl1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B6C392AA2; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 04:12:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from davida@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from :message-id:content-type:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to :cc:to:references; s=sasl; bh=MEAZ3POSz/kdF+8EpkiJ7ZYXNKiBBYQnTp u5YPG34b0=; b=YtTS4yFymoesChTuvmkN4jRJ+psumNOv9mZLCP6HAjWpzcQ4f4 55c9Xuzj7J7r2Cbk0cieg3Bt1GNFafNYsM6gRlB+0duv+P707dGA+5vrUsmUqlYi YV8eTYbBn5vlhSEWy6QSmppyxIgSs+Cq113nyLI9xGZIpQfTerilvrRbM= Received: from pb-sasl1.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-sasl1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13F9A92AA0; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 04:12:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from davida@pobox.com) Received: from [192.168.86.129] (unknown [203.132.93.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-sasl1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB37F92A9E; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 04:12:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from davida@pobox.com) From: David Arnold Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1D960F3F-A62E-44A8-8CB7-8138BF898EB1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2022 20:12:32 +1100 In-Reply-To: To: Theodore Ts'o References: <20221109221648.GS6203@mcvoy.com> <314617d9-2e2b-4f88-bce3-ec82e4fb378e@app.fastmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: D2D6599E-60D7-11ED-9193-38C66D9B1A4B-29049682!pb-sasl1.pobox.com Message-ID-Hash: GMY7SQ7BVFRTZUHZBHMGRNWI2KXF5RPG X-Message-ID-Hash: GMY7SQ7BVFRTZUHZBHMGRNWI2KXF5RPG X-MailFrom: davida@pobox.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: segaloco , Joseph Holsten , segaloco X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: [OT?] 1993 'Sourceware' paper anniversary. What was right & any surprises? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --Apple-Mail=_1D960F3F-A62E-44A8-8CB7-8138BF898EB1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 10 Nov 2022, at 17:14, Theodore Ts'o wrote: > On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 12:28:49PM +1100, David Arnold wrote: >> a) Today most identifiably Unix software is =E2=80=9Csourceware=E2=80=9D= , and so the >> differences between Linuxes, *BSD, and macOS are fairly easily >> taken care of (eg. with autotools). >=20 > I'd also argue that (a) the differences between the Linuxes aren't as > big some people would make it out to be --- especially compared to the > differences between AIX and Solaris and HPUX, and (b) *BSD and macOS > has their ports and homebrew systems which also ease any pai that > isn't handled by autoconf and friends. I agree. The differences between desktop/server Linux distributions are largely = invisible to application code. THe most obvious exceptions are = locations for files. I=E2=80=99ve found it=E2=80=99s basically easier to = deal with that dynamically (in the application code), rather than doing = an autoconf-based distro switch. Init script vs. units, etc, are minor = issues too. Sometimes I=E2=80=99ve found a particular platform doesn=E2=80=99t have = a package for eg. the right SSL library, or the right version of = something, but that=E2=80=99s fairly rare, and mostly able to be worked = around by being conservative in dependency choices. Alpine=E2=80=99s use of musl rather than glibc was a bigger problem, but = musl is increasingly glibc compatible. Other libc versions used by = embedded platforms, create more problems, but then those applications = tend to be fairly narrowly targeted anyway. But all that said =E2=80=A6 it=E2=80=99s a heap easier than making = source code compile across every common Unix in the mid-to-late 90=E2=80=99= s. d --Apple-Mail=_1D960F3F-A62E-44A8-8CB7-8138BF898EB1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On = 10 Nov 2022, at 17:14, Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at = 12:28:49PM +1100, David Arnold wrote:

a) = Today most identifiably Unix software is =E2=80=9Csourceware=E2=80=9D, = and so the
differences between Linuxes, *BSD, and macOS are = fairly easily
taken care of (eg. with autotools).

I'd also argue that (a) the differences between the Linuxes = aren't as
big some = people would make it out to be --- especially compared to the
differences between AIX and = Solaris and HPUX, and (b) *BSD and macOS
has their ports and homebrew systems which also ease any pai = that
isn't handled = by autoconf and friends.

I agree.

The = differences between desktop/server Linux distributions are largely = invisible to application code.  THe most obvious exceptions are = locations for files. I=E2=80=99ve found it=E2=80=99s basically easier to = deal with that dynamically (in the application code), rather than doing = an autoconf-based distro switch.  Init script vs. units, etc, are = minor issues too.

Sometimes I=E2=80=99= ve found a particular platform doesn=E2=80=99t have a package for eg. = the right SSL library, or the right version of something, but that=E2=80=99= s fairly rare, and mostly able to be worked around by being conservative = in dependency choices.

Alpine=E2=80=99= s use of musl rather than glibc was a bigger problem, but musl is = increasingly glibc compatible.  Other libc versions used by = embedded platforms, create more problems, but then those applications = tend to be fairly narrowly targeted anyway.

But all that said =E2=80=A6 it=E2=80=99s a heap = easier than making source code compile across every common Unix in the = mid-to-late 90=E2=80=99s.




d

= --Apple-Mail=_1D960F3F-A62E-44A8-8CB7-8138BF898EB1--