From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erin@coffee.corliss.net (Erin W. Corliss) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:39:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: VaxMate Message-ID: My local computer junk store has a VaxMate for sale. I'm not sure of the model -- It has a DB-25 serial port, 10-base-2 ethernet, and a phone-jack like printer port on the back, as well as an internal ST-225 hard drive and a 5.25 inch floppy drive. Anyway, when I turn it on it tries to boot up -- the graphical slider thing on the screen gets about 90% of the way across and it displays the number 83, which I assume is an eeror code since the number changes if you boot it up with no keyboard. Anyone know what the 83 means or where I can get a list of VaxMate error codes? Also, how intelligent is this machine compared to a terminal? Will it actually run a Vax operating system or does it need a server? -------------------------------------------------------- "...color flashing thunder crashing dynamite machine..." Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19267 for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:25:25 +1100 (EST) Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026 at Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19259 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:25:14 +1100 (EST) Received: from localhost (bqt at localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA02756; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:24:44 +0100 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:24:43 +0100 (MET) From: Johnny Billquist To: Ken Wellsch cc: James Lothian , pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h) In-Reply-To: <199902181846.NAA05766 at math.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Ken Wellsch wrote: > I'm going to give up as I seem to remember nothing anymore... sigh. > Allison also sent e-mail saying the DEQNA is not T-11 based. I guess > I'm thinking of an RQDX3. I've had no place to unpack my old iron in > over three years and certainly miss being able to pick up the part in > question before foaming at the mouth spouting nonsense. Many apologies > for suggesting such major inaccuracies. -- Ken > > P.S. Allison describe the DEQNA as a state-driven device with PALs > (I think) and that "big F" may the the gate array also mentioned. You might not be totally out. I also thought the DEQNA was T-11 based, since the DEUNA is. :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19430 for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:22:47 +1100 (EST) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA19425 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:22:38 +1100 (EST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA23083; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:22:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA25325; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:22:33 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:22:33 -0500 From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Message-Id: <199902190022.AA25325 at world.std.com> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h) Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk <> I'm going to give up as I seem to remember nothing anymore... sigh. <> Allison also sent e-mail saying the DEQNA is not T-11 based. I guess <> I'm thinking of an RQDX3. I've had no place to unpack my old iron in <> over three years and certainly miss being able to pick up the part in <> question before foaming at the mouth spouting nonsense. Many apologies <> for suggesting such major inaccuracies. -- Ken <> <> P.S. Allison describe the DEQNA as a state-driven device with PALs <> (I think) and that "big F" may the the gate array also mentioned. < ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:40:18 +1100 (EST) Received: (from johnh at localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA27443 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:40:17 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:40:17 +1100 (EST) From: johnh@psych.usyd.edu.au Message-Id: <199902190040.LAA27443 at psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: DEQNA (was was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h) Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk | Just for the sake of being picky... the DEQNA is based on an Intel | microcontroller chip (something 8085-ish, I think). The ethernet chipset | seems to be Fairchild (it's certainly got a big F on it.) | The DEQNA uses a Intel 8751 (an EPROM version of 8051 family). I suspect that it may deal with the programming protocol and the ring buffers. The chip with the F (with bars top and bottom of the letter) is probably Fujitsu. These boards had a fairly bad reputation for lockups and dropped packets. There was a 20+ wire ECO along with a PAL chip (with 8 of the pins cut off) soldered on top of another chip. The replacement ethernet controller was the DELQA, which was a complete redesign and used a 68000 processor. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19489 for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:41:28 +1100 (EST) Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026 at Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA19484 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:41:18 +1100 (EST) Received: from localhost (bqt at localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA05467; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:41:06 +0100 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:41:03 +0100 (MET) From: Johnny Billquist To: Allison J Parent cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h) In-Reply-To: <199902190022.AA25325 at world.std.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi, Alison. > > I have a DEQNA in front of me. There is a micro and that is a 8751 8bitter. > The big chip is a LSI ASIC that is a linked list DMA controller. No t-11. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong, just that I was. > The RQDXn(n={1,2,3} uses a t-11. The DELQA also does not use a T-11. Never looked carefully at RQDX?, but the DELQA uses an M68K, that much I *do* know. (As do the DELUA) > Both use lots of logic in PALs and ASICs to perform several state machines > needed for eithenet. At the time of development there were few complete > and fast enough chipsets for eithernet. The DEQNA is mid 80s design and > quite old. You obviously knows more about this than I do. :-) However, as I said, atleast the DELQA have an M68K... And the DEQNA is old, yes... > The DEUNA is quite different. Obviously. But it is also pretty old. Not as buggy though, which should have been a clue. :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19674 for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:57:56 +1100 (EST) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19669 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:57:47 +1100 (EST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA05789; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:57:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA29020; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:57:38 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:57:38 -0500 From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Message-Id: <199902190157.AA29020 at world.std.com> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h) Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk The DEUNA is quite different. < ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:59:27 +1100 (EST) Received: (from smap at localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA22942; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:58:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from roc-ny1-19.ix.netcom.com(199.183.209.51) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022871; Thu Feb 18 19:58:23 1999 Message-ID: <006401be5baa$06ce3da0$33d1b7c7 at eric-edwards> From: "Eric Edwards" To: "maximum entropy" , Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:48:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but you can build a working 2.9 kernel (sans network) from the sources by just commenting out the references to the networking include files. I think there is an offending reference in syslocal.c also. Eric Edwards eekg at ix.netcom.com mag at csh.rit.edu -----Original Message----- From: maximum entropy To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 11:36 PM Subject: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h >"make unix" failed: >Make: Don't know how to make /usr/include/sys/mbuf.h. Stop. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA19762 for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:14:46 +1100 (EST) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA19757 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:14:38 +1100 (EST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA07685; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:14:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA14211; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:14:32 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:14:32 -0500 From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Message-Id: <199902190214.AA14211 at world.std.com> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: DEQNA (was was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h) Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk n and each rev had a step. The last one was N-11... it was marginal. Good one tended to be good and the bad were PITA. Also they tended to fail far often than MTBF predictions. ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:23:01 +1100 (EST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA08719; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:22:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA21412; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:22:56 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:22:56 -0500 From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Message-Id: <199902190222.AA21412 at world.std.com> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h) Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:36:21 +1100 (EST) Received: by timaxp.trailing-edge.com for PUPS at MINNIE.cs.adfa.OZ.AU; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:36:11 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:36:11 -0500 From: Tim Shoppa To: PUPS at MINNIE.cs.adfa.OZ.AU Message-Id: <990218213611.202000b8 at trailing-edge.com> Subject: Re: DEQNA (was was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h) Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk >The DELQA was not 68000. Hate to turn this into a "no it isn't, yet it is" sequence, but all my DELQA's have prominent 68000's on 'em. > The board was far to small for that No, it isn't. The 68000 is the quad pack, and is smaller than either of the two custom gate arrays that does the Q-bus handshaking. Tim. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA20047 for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:07:20 +1100 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20040 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:07:11 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA02230; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:06:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey Message-Id: <199902190306.OAA02230 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h In-Reply-To: <006401be5baa$06ce3da0$33d1b7c7 at eric-edwards> from Eric Edwards at "Feb 18, 1999 8:48:59 pm" To: eekg at ix.netcom.com (Eric Edwards) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:06:14 +1100 (EST) Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Eric Edwards: > I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but you can build a working 2.9 > kernel (sans network) from the sources by just commenting out the references > to the networking include files. I think there is an offending reference in > syslocal.c also. > > Eric Edwards > eekg at ix.netcom.com > mag at csh.rit.edu What is happening is that `make depend' invokes a script which finds #includes in the source code, and builds a make dependency. However, it's not very intelligent, and doesn't ignore: #ifdef INET #include when INET isn't defined. :-) This bites on several C files. You just have to hand-prune the Makefile after make depend :-) This is 2.9BSD, BTW, ignore if you're not using it. Ciao! Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA21635 for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:20:30 +1100 (EST) Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026 at Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21630 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:20:14 +1100 (EST) Received: from localhost (bqt at localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA26451; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:19:33 +0100 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:19:31 +0100 (MET) From: Johnny Billquist To: Allison J Parent cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h) In-Reply-To: <199902190157.AA29020 at world.std.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > > DELQA is not 68k, The DEUNA is. The DELQA is a cost reduced version > (less buggy too) of the DEQNA and is largely logically the same as the > DEQNA. Really? I have a DELQA sitting right in front of me, and when I look at it, the large chip definitely says M68000. What could that be then? Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA21652 for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:23:04 +1100 (EST) Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026 at Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21647 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:22:50 +1100 (EST) Received: from localhost (bqt at localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA26532; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:22:37 +0100 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:22:35 +0100 (MET) From: Johnny Billquist To: Allison J Parent cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: DEQNA (was was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h) In-Reply-To: <199902190214.AA14211 at world.std.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > > The DELQA was not 68000. The board was far to small for that and had to be > Qbus dual width and compatable with DEQNA. I have a few of them in my vaxen > too. The Unibus versions DEUNA and the later DELUA were 68k and very good. Hate to disagree with you, Alison. The the DELQA really is 68000, take a peek inside yourself. It is a dual-width too... And the DEUNA is T-11, while the DELUA is 68000. I have never bothered plugging in any DEUNAs myself, since DELUAs are pretty common, and they atleast are pretty good. Never had any problems with any of them. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol