* [pups] c68 compiler for PDP-11? @ 2001-03-13 4:19 Warren Toomey 2001-03-14 14:28 ` [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller Gregory R. Travis 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Warren Toomey @ 2001-03-13 4:19 UTC (permalink / raw) Before I dive in and attempt this, has anybody ported the c68 C compiler to the PDP-11 family? http://www.itimpi.freeserve.co.uk/compsrc.htm Cheers, Warren ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller 2001-03-13 4:19 [pups] c68 compiler for PDP-11? Warren Toomey @ 2001-03-14 14:28 ` Gregory R. Travis 0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: Gregory R. Travis @ 2001-03-14 14:28 UTC (permalink / raw) I've got an AVIV TFC-825 UNIBUS controller on my 11/44. I'm virtually certain it emulates a TS11. It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives. It has two cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2. I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83. Works fine. Now I'd like to use the drive to bootstrap the 11/44. The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons. Sure enough, the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful world, eh?) However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin! Anyone have any insight into what's going on here? Isn't a Pertec interface a Pertec interface? Or is the DigiData using some kind of proprietary (to DigiData) interface? thanks, greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg at ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA82497 for pups-liszt; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 03:58:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA82493 for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 03:58:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl at localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11048; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:52:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:52:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200103141652.IAA11048 at chiton.ucsd.edu> To: ciswired.com at mpl.ucsd.edu, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller Cc: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:28:41 -0500 (EST) > From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg at ciswired.com> > To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller > > It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives. It has two > cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2. > > I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a > DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83. Works fine. Now I'd like to use > the drive to bootstrap the 11/44. > > The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons. Sure enough, > the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful > world, eh?) > However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin! Are you sure those numbers aren't 50 and 60, respectively? > Anyone have any insight into what's going on here? Isn't a Pertec > interface a Pertec interface? Or is the DigiData using some kind of > proprietary (to DigiData) interface? For what it's worth, there were two distinctly different "Pertec" interfaces. They might be called Early Pertec and Late Pertec. For Early Pertec, the eventual cable breakout to the drives went to three connectors, Read data, Write data, and Control. Possibly the AVIV controller was meant to be used with a custom cable set to match a "three-connector" drive. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein at ucsd.edu Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA82533 for pups-liszt; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 04:03:46 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA82529 for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 04:03:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl at localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11108 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:58:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:58:28 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200103141658.IAA11108 at chiton.ucsd.edu> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:28:41 -0500 (EST) > From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg at ciswired.com> > To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller > > I've got an AVIV TFC-825 UNIBUS controller on my 11/44. I'm virtually certain > it emulates a TS11. > > It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives. It has two > cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2. > > I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a > DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83. Works fine. Now I'd like to use > the drive to bootstrap the 11/44. > > The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons. Sure enough, > the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful > world, eh?) > > However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin! Are you sure those numbers aren't 50 and 60, respectively? Most of the connecting cables for tape drives used twisted-pair ribbon cable. > Anyone have any insight into what's going on here? Isn't a Pertec > interface a Pertec interface? Or is the DigiData using some kind of > proprietary (to DigiData) interface? For what it's worth, there were two "standard" Pertec interfaces. I think of them as Early Pertec and Late Pertec. Late Pertec is the two 50-pin cables. Early Pertec connected to the drive with three cables, Read data, Write data, and Control. Usually there was a custom cable set that broke out to three cables from the connectors on the controller. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein at ucsd.edu Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA83014 for pups-liszt; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 05:19:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from goby.ciswired.com (IDENT:root at goby.ciswired.com [206.97.67.65]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA83010 for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 05:19:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from greg at ciswired.com) Received: from weasel.ciswired.com (root at weasel.ciswired.com [206.97.67.73]) by goby.ciswired.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25416; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:05:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (greg at localhost) by weasel.ciswired.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23422; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:14:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: weasel.ciswired.com: greg owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:14:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg@ciswired.com> To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu> cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller In-Reply-To: <200103141652.IAA11048 at chiton.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103141305380.23323-100000 at weasel.ciswired.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:28:41 -0500 (EST) > > From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg at ciswired.com> > > To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller > > > > It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives. It has two > > cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2. > > > > I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a > > DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83. Works fine. Now I'd like to use > > the drive to bootstrap the 11/44. > > > > The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons. Sure enough, > > the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful > > world, eh?) > > However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin! > > Are you sure those numbers aren't 50 and 60, respectively? You're absolutely right. I just read the pin #s off the boards next to the connector. They printed 49 and 59 but, of course, there's the other row of pins. > For what it's worth, there were two distinctly different "Pertec" > interfaces. They might be called Early Pertec and Late Pertec. > For Early Pertec, the eventual cable breakout to the drives went > to three connectors, Read data, Write data, and Control. Possibly > the AVIV controller was meant to be used with a custom cable set > to match a "three-connector" drive. I >THINK< I've got that covered. The "early pertec", as I recall, are also referred to as unformatted and consist, as you say, of three cables. I've got a Western Digital UNIBUS TM11 controller that uses three cables. The later pertec are referred to as formatted and consist of just two cables. My DigiData controllers use just two cables to my DigiData drive. Now this AVIV controller has TWO connectors along its top. That's for sure. But the connectors have each got more pins than the DigiData controllers do. As you say, I guess it's possible that the AVIV is actually an unformatted controller that takes two "large" cables/connectors and breaks them out later into three smaller cables/connectors. But that would truly suck. greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg at ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103141305380.23323-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>]
* [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103141305380.23323-100000@weasel.ciswired.com> @ 2001-03-16 19:37 ` Gregory R. Travis 2001-03-19 10:01 ` Johnny Billquist 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Gregory R. Travis @ 2001-03-16 19:37 UTC (permalink / raw) Can someone enlighten me regarding DEC SDI cabling? Here's what I have: RA81 disk drive with two big black cables coming out of it, one for each port (A/B). The cables terminate at the drive on one end and at a small metal box on the other end. The small metal box has two sockets on it (denoted with "*" in the picture below): Small metal box / +----------+ "A" cable / | RA81 |------------[]* | Drive |------------[]* +----------+ "B" cable UDA50 controller in 11/44 with four sets of orange cables coming out of it and terminating in a four-port socket set (denoted "*" in picture below) in a larger metal box at the back of the cabinet: Larger metal box / / *[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- What I have tried: I unscrewed the black cables from the small metal box and plugged one of them directly into one of the ports on the larger metal box: +----------+ "A" cable | RA81 |----------------| | Drive |----------[]* | +----------+ "B" cable | / Larger metal box / / | / |-*[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- That didn't work (I tried it with two different drives and cable sets). The operating system (2.11BSD) sees the UDA50 but does not see the drive (which is spun up and "ready"). I did a little searching on the internet and found a couple of cryptic discussions. What I surmised from the discussions was that you cannot directly connect the drive cable to the bulkhead box on the computer cabinet. It seems you need a third cable to act as an intermediary as such: Small metal box / +----------+ "A" cable / | RA81 |----------[]*---| | Drive |----------[]* | <--- New THIRD ("external?") cable +----------+ "B" cable | / Larger metal box / / | / |-*[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- Is that right? If so, where can I find one of these external cables and/or is it possible to manufacture one from a bit of ribbon cable an a couple of commonly available plugs? The sockets denoted by "*" appear to be AMD bastardizations of common PC board plugs like the ones one would find connecting a console port plug. Thanks! greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg at ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller 2001-03-16 19:37 ` Gregory R. Travis @ 2001-03-19 10:01 ` Johnny Billquist 0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: Johnny Billquist @ 2001-03-19 10:01 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > Can someone enlighten me regarding DEC SDI cabling? Here's > what I have: You got it right by the end. You need a third external cable. The SDI-cables are always crossed, which means you always need an odd number of cables. Where to get the cables? COMPAQ if you can pay for them. Other sites that are throwing out their stuff if you definitely don't want to pay. Some dealer in used equipment is a third alternative. Ask anywhere where you might expect to find SDI disks. I wouldn't try to build that cable... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA99856 for pups-liszt; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 04:01:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA99852 for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 04:01:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f2652646fcd98 at mwnt5.microwalt.nl> for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:52:47 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <G4SMG1V2>; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:48:57 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31 at mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Update on Ultrix-11 V3.1 progress Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:48:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, This was a private message to Bill Gunshannon (my oh-so-evil partner in Ultrix crime) but it occurred to me that it might actually be of interest to some of you, so.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Update. I have done some work on the hardware here (mostly: getting the VS2000 back up, so I could re-format all RDxx drives I have here) and ended up with getting some more workable disks. The 11/83 now has an internal RD54 (/user1: 145MB :) and external TL50 plus external RD53. I did a full tape load on it, and now have a new "original" Ultrix-11 system. I already have about 5 RX50 diskettes full of stuff I added to the system- will all be in the V3.1(2) release. More important, I have started work on the Ultrix-11 source tree. I want to be able to re-generate the _entire_ system from scratch (sources), so I can optionally do it on a VAX or Alpha with GCC-plus-PDP11 backend. This is taking some time... the whole system _assumes_ many things about the fact that it is probably Ultrix-11 itself. I now run with a /usr that is fully RO (mounted RO), and it is amazing to see how often I get warnings and erros on that fact while compiling the sources :) So, basically, I am relativizing the source tree so that it is self-containing, can live anywhere in the file tree (/user1/srckit in my case) and that it moves stuff to a BINKIT (/user1/binkit in my case) tree when it is done, rather than overwriting system files. To be continued... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- And an update to that: seems to work now... system is recompiling itself as we speak/type. Once that works, this get very easy for me :) I'll post some of the README files I keep updated in the next message here... Cheers, Fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00305 for pups-liszt; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 05:10:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00301 for <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 05:10:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkb at freebie.demon.nl) Received: from [212.238.54.101] (helo=freebie.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.14 #4) id 14f41W-000KR9-00; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:04:55 +0000 Received: (from wkb at localhost) by freebie.demon.nl (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f2JI7Ja01175; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:07:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:07:19 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte <wkb@freebie.demon.nl> To: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl> Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Update on Ultrix-11 V3.1 progress Message-ID: <20010319190719.A1142 at freebie.demon.nl> References: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31 at mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31 at mwnt4.microwalt.nl>; from Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl on Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:48:57PM +0100 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.3-BETA X-PGP: finger wilko at freebsd.org Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:48:57PM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Update. > I have done some work on the hardware here (mostly: getting the VS2000 > back up, so I could re-format all RDxx drives I have here) and ended up > with getting some more workable disks. The 11/83 now has an internal > RD54 (/user1: 145MB :) and external TL50 plus external RD53. Good, I guess the drive worked then? Wilko -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands email: wilko at freebsd.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte http://www.freebsd.org http://www.nlfug.nl ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2001-03-19 10:01 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 4+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2001-03-13 4:19 [pups] c68 compiler for PDP-11? Warren Toomey 2001-03-14 14:28 ` [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller Gregory R. Travis [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103141305380.23323-100000@weasel.ciswired.com> 2001-03-16 19:37 ` Gregory R. Travis 2001-03-19 10:01 ` Johnny Billquist
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