From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: frank@wortner.com (Frank Wortner) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Message-ID: I've been trying to set up an emulated PDP-11 running 2.11 BSD. Just for the fun, I'm trying to get the 11 to talk on a LAN. Unfortunately, it's not working. My configuration is Begemot P11 Version 2.7 running under FreeBSD 4.1.1. I've booted 2.11, configured a custom networking kernel, installed the unix and netnix images, changed the IP addresses in /etc/hosts to match my LAN, run mkhosts to rebuild /etc/hosts.dir and /etc/hosts.pag and rebooted. On the P11 front, I've built a fake qma.rom file populated with zeros -- just like the P11 README file said, made sure that I had a tun driver configured in my FreeBSD system, and started P11. Then I did an ifconfig tun0 host-IP-address emulator-IP-address up Running ifconfig on the host confirmed that things *seemed* to be OK: # ifconfig tun0 tun0: flags=8051 mtu 1518 inet6 fe80::260:8ff:febd:5882%tun0 --> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xb inet host-IP-address --> emulator-IP-address netmask 0xffff0000 Opened by PID 32199 The IP addresses are identical in the first three octets, and differ only in the last octet. Unfortunately, once I boot 2.11 BSD, I can't contact the "outside world" from the emulator, nor contact the emulator from the outside. No telnet, no ftp, pings just hang. Everything looks OK from inside: # ifconfig qe0 qe0: flags=63 inet emulator-IP-address netmask ffff0000 broadcast Bcast-IP What am I missing? Thanks in advance, Frank Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA36466 for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:49:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA36462 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:49:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA58459 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:51:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (root at wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA36453 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:48:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog at wantadilla.lemis.com) Received: (from grog at localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e93NlMb05692; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:17:22 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:17:22 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Frank Wortner Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society , Hartmut Brandt , Joerg Micheel Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Message-ID: <20001004091722.C1760 at wantadilla.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from frank at wortner.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 04:02:17PM -0400 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tuesday, 3 October 2000 at 16:02:17 -0400, Frank Wortner wrote: > I've been trying to set up an emulated PDP-11 running 2.11 BSD. Just for > the fun, I'm trying to get the 11 to talk on a LAN. Unfortunately, it's > not working. There's a bug. It used to work, and *something* changed. I've been meaning to look at it, but it's currently waiting on the tuit queue. > My configuration is Begemot P11 Version 2.7 running under > FreeBSD 4.1.1. I've booted 2.11, configured a custom networking kernel, > installed the unix and netnix images, changed the IP addresses in > /etc/hosts to match my LAN, run mkhosts to rebuild /etc/hosts.dir and > /etc/hosts.pag and rebooted. > > On the P11 front, I've built a fake qma.rom file populated with zeros -- > just like the P11 README file said, made sure that I had a tun driver > configured in my FreeBSD system, and started P11. I know the README says this will work, but I haven't been able to get it to work that way. Somewhere I have a real image; I'll see if I can find it. Greg -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA36700 for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:12:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA36696 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:12:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA58613 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:13:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0 at MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA36682 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:11:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms at moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms at localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09035; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 17:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 17:11:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" Message-Id: <200010040011.RAA09035 at moe.2bsd.com> To: frank at wortner.com, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi -- > From: Frank Wortner > > I've been trying to set up an emulated PDP-11 running 2.11 BSD. Just for > the fun, I'm trying to get the 11 to talk on a LAN. Unfortunately, it's... > > My configuration is Begemot P11 Version 2.7 running under > FreeBSD 4.1.1. I've booted 2.11, configured a custom networking kernel, > installed the unix and netnix images, changed the IP addresses in... > > ifconfig tun0 host-IP-address emulator-IP-address up > > # ifconfig tun0 > tun0: flags=8051 mtu 1518 > inet6 fe80::260:8ff:febd:5882%tun0 --> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xb > inet host-IP-address --> emulator-IP-address netmask 0xffff0000 > Opened by PID 32199 > > The IP addresses are identical in the first three octets, and differ only > in the last octet. > > Unfortunately, once I boot 2.11 BSD, I can't contact the "outside > world" from the emulator, nor contact the emulator from the > outside. No telnet, no ftp, pings just hang. > What am I missing? You're missing ARP. 'tun' only works with IP - ARP packets are not IP and do not pass thru the 'if_tun' driver. I have (using BSD/OS 4.1's if_tun which is probably the same as FreeBSD's) an emulated 11 going quite nicely. What you need to do ON THE 11's SIDE, is populate his arp table with the information about any host on the local LAN that the 11 will want to talk to In /etc/netstart on the 11 side just after the 'ifconfig' lines: ifconfig qe0 inet netmask $netmask $hostname broadcast $broadcast up -trailers >/dev/console 2>&1 # ifconfig sl0 inet 192.254.254.2 192.254.254.1 -arp -trailers >/dev/console 2>&1 # slattach /dev/ttyS6 9600 # Next line needed when running under the Begemot emulator arp -s 206.139.202.1 "0:0:c:3d:e9:f7" pub arp -s 206.139.202.51 "0:a0:24:78:9c:21" pub arp -s 206.139.202.200 "0:90:27:88:64:74" pub arp -s 206.139.202.201 "08:0:2b:f:5b:a6" pub arp -s 206.139.202.209 "0:40:5:a4:72:27" pub ifconfig lo0 inet localhost up -trailers >/dev/console 2>&1 Typically you only need the ARP info for the hosting system and the default gateway. Oh, there's a bug in P11 that after 25 days of calendar up time the clock on the 11 basically stops ticking. I've a fix I came up with (and submitted to the author) but it'll be a couple weeks until I know for sure if it's the right fix (32bit overflow in a calculation). Steven Schultz sms at to.gd-es.com Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA37363 for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:35:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA37359 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:35:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA58957 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:37:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (root at wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA37319 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:29:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog at wantadilla.lemis.com) Received: (from grog at localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e941TBk07853; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:59:11 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:59:11 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Steven M. Schultz" Cc: frank at wortner.com, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Message-ID: <20001004105911.H7292 at wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <200010040011.RAA09035 at moe.2bsd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200010040011.RAA09035 at moe.2bsd.com>; from sms at moe.2bsd.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 05:11:10PM -0700 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tuesday, 3 October 2000 at 17:11:10 -0700, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi -- > >> From: Frank Wortner >> >> I've been trying to set up an emulated PDP-11 running 2.11 BSD. Just for >> the fun, I'm trying to get the 11 to talk on a LAN. Unfortunately, it's... >> >> My configuration is Begemot P11 Version 2.7 running under >> FreeBSD 4.1.1. I've booted 2.11, configured a custom networking kernel, >> installed the unix and netnix images, changed the IP addresses in... >> >> ifconfig tun0 host-IP-address emulator-IP-address up >> >> # ifconfig tun0 >> tun0: flags=8051 mtu 1518 >> inet6 fe80::260:8ff:febd:5882%tun0 --> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xb >> inet host-IP-address --> emulator-IP-address netmask 0xffff0000 >> Opened by PID 32199 >> >> The IP addresses are identical in the first three octets, and differ only >> in the last octet. >> >> Unfortunately, once I boot 2.11 BSD, I can't contact the "outside >> world" from the emulator, nor contact the emulator from the >> outside. No telnet, no ftp, pings just hang. >> What am I missing? > > You're missing ARP. > > 'tun' only works with IP - ARP packets are not IP and do not pass > thru the 'if_tun' driver. > > I have (using BSD/OS 4.1's if_tun which is probably the same as > FreeBSD's) an emulated 11 going quite nicely. > > What you need to do ON THE 11's SIDE, is populate his arp table with > the information about any host on the local LAN that the 11 will > want to talk to I didn't need to do this when I had the emulated net running. I did set the netmask to 255.255.255.255, though, and put the default route through that interface. Greg -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA37613 for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:10:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA37609 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:10:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA59086 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:12:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0 at MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA37598 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:09:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms at moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms at localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09659; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:59:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" Message-Id: <200010040159.SAA09659 at moe.2bsd.com> To: grog at lemis.com, sms at moe.2bsd.com Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Cc: frank at wortner.com, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From: Greg Lehey > > I didn't need to do this when I had the emulated net running. I did > set the netmask to 255.255.255.255, though, and put the default route > through that interface. I thought you mentioned using the 'tap' driver rather than 'tun' at one time. If my memory hasn't failed me that would explain why it worked since 'tap' passes ARP traffic. The missing piece I forgot earlier was on the hosting machine's side to publish an ARP entry for the simulated 11. Just after ifconfig'ing tun0 up use the hosting system's mac address: ifconfig tun0 206.139.202.200 206.139.202.203 up arp -s shemp 0:90:27:88:64:74 pub I'm not sure how ARP can be made to work thru the 'tun' device. Without ARP on an ethernet I am not aware of any 'routing' that can fill in the mac addresses in the ethernet packets. Try pub'ing the arp entries and see if that works. Might try 'tap' instead of 'tun' if you're looking for something else to try. Steven Schultz