From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: frank@wortner.com (Frank Wortner) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator In-Reply-To: <200010041528.IAA19574@moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: Just to let everyone know, Stephen Schultz was right: I needed arp table entries as he described.` Thanks to him and Greg Lehey for their useful replies. Frank Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA44035 for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:00:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA44023 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:00:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA61588 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:02:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.0.212]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA43020 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 05:37:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from frank at wortner.com) Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.0.228]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12733487A4 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by panix3.panix.com (8.8.8/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) with ESMTP id OAA22748 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:37:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: panix3.panix.com: frank owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:37:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank Wortner X-Sender: frank at panix3.panix.com To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] Default P11 Emulator Clock Rate Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This is just an FYI for anyone playing with the Begemot P11 emulator ... The default clock rate on P11 is 50 Hz. While this corresponds to AC line frequency in many parts of the world, it is not correct for the U.S., where 60 Hz is the norm. Since PDP-11 Unix was developed in the U.S., the bootable distributions probably assume a 60 Hz clock also. When the software and "hardware" disagree on clock rates, problems happen. My emulated 11 had difficulties keeping accurate time until I discovered the 50 Hz clock rate. After I changed it to 60, the emulator's time was remarkably accurate! If you want to change the default clock rate, you can do so in the source (look for the symbol "clock_rate" in "main.c"), or you can just add set clock_rate 60 into your p11conf file. This will override the default in the emulator program. Have fun -- I certainly am! :-) Frank Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA44015 for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:00:13 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA44011 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:00:11 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA61560 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:01:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0 at MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA42100 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:40:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms at moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms at localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19559 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:24:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" Message-Id: <200010041524.IAA19559 at moe.2bsd.com> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Greg Lehey > No, that wasn't me. FreeBSD doesn't have a tap driver. Do you mean > Frank? Sure it does. The FreeBSD 4.1.1 release notes say so ;) Before that the 'if_tap.c' module was available (for some time) as a download that could be retrieved from the author's site. > > The missing piece I forgot earlier was on the hosting machine's > > side to publish an ARP entry for the simulated 11. > > I'm pretty sure we weren't using arp at all. tun is a point-to-point > interface. The reason for publishing an ARP entry on the hosting system is so that other systems on the LAN know how to get to the simulated 11 via the P11 hosting system. If the hosting system doesn't publish an ARP entry the gateway, etc won't know to send the packets to the machine running P11. > > I'm not sure how ARP can be made to work thru the 'tun' device. > > I don't think it can. I think Harti used some magic there. I know it can't - I asked him about it :) That's when I first discovered that nothing was able to communicate with the simulated 11 - the 11 will not send anything unless it's able to get a response to its ARP request. On the hosting side it would be possible perhaps to use a "interface route" but 2.11 can not do that and will block waiting for an ARPREPLY. Steven Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA44583 for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:38:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA44579 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:38:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA62065 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:40:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0 at MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA44571 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:38:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms at moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms at localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21951 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:27:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" Message-Id: <200010042227.PAA21951 at moe.2bsd.com> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Default P11 Emulator Clock Rate Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Frank Wortner > The default clock rate on P11 is 50 Hz. While this corresponds to AC line > frequency in many parts of the world, it is not correct for the > U.S., where 60 Hz is the norm. Since PDP-11 Unix was developed in the > U.S., the bootable distributions probably assume a 60 Hz clock Yes, the bootable 2.11 distribution assumes a 60Hz clock. That is easily changed though for folks that live in 50Hz areas. Edit the kernel config file and change LINEHZ to 50. The rest of the system has been changed to ask the kernel for the clockrate so there shouldn't be any compiled in assumptions outside the kernel (if I overlooked any let me know and I'll fix it). > My emulated 11 had difficulties keeping accurate time until I discovered > the 50 Hz clock rate. After I changed it to 60, the emulator's time was > remarkably accurate! Indeed it is accurate. Earlier versions of P11 would lose time very rapidly if the PDP-11 was "busy" - but the latest version of P11 is fantastic at keeping time. If you run 'ntpd' on the 11 the time stays even closer to "real". Steven Schultz Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA46919 for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:03:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA46914 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:03:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA63282 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:04:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (root at wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA45823 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:03:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog at wantadilla.lemis.com) Received: (from grog at localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e9533Pt12494; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:33:25 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:33:25 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Steven M. Schultz" Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Message-ID: <20001005123324.C12234 at wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <200010041524.IAA19559 at moe.2bsd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200010041524.IAA19559 at moe.2bsd.com>; from sms at moe.2bsd.com on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 08:24:07AM -0700 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Wednesday, 4 October 2000 at 8:24:07 -0700, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi - > >> From: Greg Lehey >> No, that wasn't me. FreeBSD doesn't have a tap driver. Do you mean >> Frank? > > Sure it does. The FreeBSD 4.1.1 release notes say so ;) > Before that the 'if_tap.c' module was available (for some time) > as a download that could be retrieved from the author's site. I stand corrected: > revision 1.1 > date: 2000/07/20 17:01:10; author: nsayer; state: Exp; > Add the tap driver. > > The tap driver is used to present a virtual Ethernet interface to the > system. Packets presented by the network stack to the interface are > made available to a character device in /dev. With tap and the bridge > code, you can make remote bridge configurations where both sides of > the bridge are separated by userland daemons. > > This driver also has a special naming hack to allow it to serve a similar > purpose to the vmware port. > > Submitted by: myevmenkin at att.com, vsilyaev at mindspring.com Ah well, I still haven't used it. >>> The missing piece I forgot earlier was on the hosting machine's >>> side to publish an ARP entry for the simulated 11. >> >> I'm pretty sure we weren't using arp at all. tun is a point-to-point >> interface. > > The reason for publishing an ARP entry on the hosting system is > so that other systems on the LAN know how to get to the simulated > 11 via the P11 hosting system. If the hosting system doesn't > publish an ARP entry the gateway, etc won't know to send the packets > to the machine running P11. I did that with a static route entry. >>> I'm not sure how ARP can be made to work thru the 'tun' device. >> >> I don't think it can. I think Harti used some magic there. > > I know it can't - I asked him about it :) That's when I first > discovered that nothing was able to communicate with the simulated > 11 - the 11 will not send anything unless it's able to get a > response to its ARP request. On the hosting side it would be > possible perhaps to use a "interface route" but 2.11 can not do that > and will block waiting for an ARPREPLY. As I say, it's not that simple. I used it without trouble for years. Recently something broke, and I suspect it trashed my root file system, and I haven't had time to go back and fix it. Since others have the rest running, it's obviously nothing fundamental. Greg -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers