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* Installing UNIX on an 11/94
@ 1999-12-14 21:19 Steven M. Schultz
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Steven M. Schultz @ 1999-12-14 21:19 UTC (permalink / raw)


Hi -

> From arno at usn.nl Mon Dec 13 23:28:32 1999
> The '94 is way cool! I'm amazed at the extensive menu-based boot ROM in 

	Yep - I have seen that on the 11/93 at my place.  Nice.  Having the
	"toyclock" to get the date/time from is real good too.

> this thing. At least the RA92's are quite a bit more 'civilized' than the
> RA82 on my uVAX which is more like a howling banshee..

	Use less power and are more reliable (also larger capacity I believe)

> otherwise I wouldn't have had the problem.. I have an UC07 SCSI controller
> I could use for a while (but it's QBUS) to hook up a tape drive.

	As I was reminded a short time ago - don't put a Qbus board into a
	Unibus machine (or the other way around) :-)

> Any network connection will be OK.. I hope BSD has PPP support? That
> should give at least some rudimentary network connectivity (even if it's
> just 9600)

	SL/IP yes but 2.11 predates PPP and I am not sure there is room in
	the kernel/networking for PPP (which is a much more complex protocol).

	I've run SL/IP just fine - and if you have the (fairly) recent updates
	to enable hardware flowcontrol you can run considerably faster than
	9600 and not worry about dropped characters or truncated packets.

> Or I could use 1 RA92 (with the problem you describe) and use it to 
> run the install on the second drive? (partitioning that properly)

	Ah, yes indeed!  As long as the kernel's idea of the drive size
	is less than what the actual disk image is then you should not have
	any problems - i.e. if you put an RA60 sized image on an RA92 it 
	should work (at least well enough to configure the 2nd drive correctly).
	Obviously the other way around would not work ;)

> Guess my first search will be for either an UNIBUS SCSI controller or 
> a TK50/TK70 controller as I still have some drives for those..

	A TK70 controller will run a TK50 drive very nicely _and_ offer
	the benefit of the buffer cache (which speeds things up greatly).  I
	do not know if there was a Unibus TK50 adaptor though.

	An inexpensive TS05 would be a real nice thing to have about now ;)

	Steve

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From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA@trailing-edge.com>
To: sms at moe.2bsd.com
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>> From arno at usn.nl Mon Dec 13 23:28:32 1999
>> The '94 is way cool! I'm amazed at the extensive menu-based boot ROM in 

>	Yep - I have seen that on the 11/93 at my place.  Nice.  Having the
>	"toyclock" to get the date/time from is real good too.

As long as you've updated to the Y2K-compliant KDJ11-E firmware, that is.

The "old" firmware will do fine up until the end of 28-Feb-2000, when it
will promptly wrap back around to 1990.  You can use 2.11BSD 'toyset'
(or the RSX-11 or RT-11 equivalent) to set the TOY clock after that date,
but at power on it'll reset back to 1990.

See the discussions in vmsnet.pdp-11 earlier this year for the ordering
code and cost (I think it's around $25.00) for the new 11/93 and 11/94
firmware.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa at trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          WWW:   http://www.trailing-edge.com/
 7328 Bradley Blvd		   Voice: 301-767-5917
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817           Fax:   301-767-5927




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Installing UNIX on an 11/94
@ 1999-12-13 19:59 Tim Shoppa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Tim Shoppa @ 1999-12-13 19:59 UTC (permalink / raw)


>> I was thinking of using one of those TU58 emulators on the PC, but I 
>> didn't find any mention of booting an 11/94 of these tape drives
>> or installing UNIX from it..

>	No support for the TU58 in the kernel or boot program.   At 256kb
>	it's barely large enough to hold the standalone programs much less
>	a dump of the root filesystem or anything like that.

Even if there was support, it'd be just plain cruel, even with emulated
TU58's.  Reminds me of "The Wagner Ring Cycle on Convenient 45's".

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa at trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          WWW:   http://www.trailing-edge.com/
 7328 Bradley Blvd		   Voice: 301-767-5917
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817           Fax:   301-767-5927

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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:56:53 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms@moe.2bsd.com>
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Subject: Re: Installing UNIX on an 11/94
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> From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com>
> 
> Even if there was support, it'd be just plain cruel, even with emulated
> TU58's.  Reminds me of "The Wagner Ring Cycle on Convenient 45's".

	That wasn't too bad.  You should try Das Rheingold on 78's :)

	Steve

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	Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:28:16 +0100
From: Arno Griffioen <arno@usn.nl>
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Subject: Re: Installing UNIX on an 11/94
In-Reply-To: <199912131935.LAA18041 at moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Dec 13, 1999 11:35:35 am"
To: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:28:16 +0100 (CET)
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> > OK.. Biggie here is that this machine doesn't have a tape drive, just
> > 2 RA92 drives. It used to have a TU81, but it seems to have been junked
> 
> 
> 	Congratulations on getting a /94 with RA92 drives!   Condolences
> 	on the tape drive being junked.

The '94 is way cool! I'm amazed at the extensive menu-based boot ROM in 
this thing. At least the RA92's are quite a bit more 'civilized' than the
RA82 on my uVAX which is more like a howling banshee..

Pity I have little UNIBUS stuff.. Most of my other DEC hardware is QBUS based,
otherwise I wouldn't have had the problem.. I have an UC07 SCSI controller
I could use for a while (but it's QBUS) to hook up a tape drive.

The machine itself seems to work fine (and seems to be pretty much 'lodaded').
Runs RSX-11 now (at least a partial setup as I wasn't able to get all drives)

> > No ethernet card either.. (anybody know where to get a DEUNA cheap??)
> 
> 	In the US there are many places which sell used DEC equipment but
> 	I do not know of any in the Netherlands.  If at all possible get
> 	a DELUA insetad  - less power hungry and fewer bugs.

Any network connection will be OK.. I hope BSD has PPP support? That
should give at least some rudimentary network connectivity (even if it's
just 9600)

> 	RP06 or 7.  Then at the last minute install the MSCP bootblock.  
> 	DD that image to an  RA92 and hoo that up to the /94.

Worth a shot..

> 	The problem you will most likely encounter is that the size will not
> 	be exactly right for the last partition.  Experimenting with the
> 	standalone 'disklabel' program and adjusting the sizes/geometry may
> 	be needed.  If the size is changed then 'fsck -s' to force a 
> 	rebuild of the freelist will be needed.

Or I could use 1 RA92 (with the problem you describe) and use it to 
run the install on the second drive? (partitioning that properly)

> 	No support for the TU58 in the kernel or boot program.   At 256kb
> 	it's barely large enough to hold the standalone programs much less
> 	a dump of the root filesystem or anything like that.

OK. Got that.

Guess my first search will be for either an UNIBUS SCSI controller or 
a TK50/TK70 controller as I still have some drives for those..

I have little or no 9-track reel tape stuff :-)

Thanx for the help!

							Bye, Arno.

-- 
PSINetworks Europe           Fax: +31-23-5699841 | One disk to rule them all,
Siriusdreef 34               Tel: +31-23-5699840 | One disk to bind them,
2132WT Hoofddorp+--------------------------------+ One disk to hold the files
The Netherlands |   *  Musical Interlude  *      | And in the darkness grind 'em
----------------+--------------------------------+------------------------------

 We say Retribution, We say Vengeance is bliss, We say Revolution,
 With a Cast-Iron fist!                  (Megadeth, 'The Disintegrators')

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Installing UNIX on an 11/94
@ 1999-12-13  9:18 Arno Griffioen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Arno Griffioen @ 1999-12-13  9:18 UTC (permalink / raw)


OK.. Biggie here is that this machine doesn't have a tape drive, just
2 RA92 drives. It used to have a TU81, but it seems to have been junked
along the way.

No ethernet card either.. (anybody know where to get a DEUNA cheap??)

What are my options to get 2.11BSD running on this beast? 

I have a uVAX 3600 running NetBSD, so I could possibly dump a raw
filesystem image onto one of the RA92's and perhaps boot the 11/94
off of it. Is this feasible? I haven't looked into it yet..

I was thinking of using one of those TU58 emulators on the PC, but I 
didn't find any mention of booting an 11/94 of these tape drives
or installing UNIX from it..

I don't have any other UNIBUS cards, so I can't plug my TK70 into
the 11/94..

Any thoughts on the subject are welcome..

							Bye, Arno.

-- 
PSINetworks Europe           Fax: +31-23-5699841 | One disk to rule them all,
Siriusdreef 34               Tel: +31-23-5699840 | One disk to bind them,
2132WT Hoofddorp+--------------------------------+ One disk to hold the files
The Netherlands |   *  Musical Interlude  *      | And in the darkness grind 'em
----------------+--------------------------------+------------------------------

 We say Retribution, We say Vengeance is bliss, We say Revolution,
 With a Cast-Iron fist!                  (Megadeth, 'The Disintegrators')

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:35:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199912131935.LAA18041 at moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Installing UNIX on an 11/94
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Hi -

> From: Arno Griffioen <arno at usn.nl>
> 
> OK.. Biggie here is that this machine doesn't have a tape drive, just
> 2 RA92 drives. It used to have a TU81, but it seems to have been junked


	Congratulations on getting a /94 with RA92 drives!   Condolences
	on the tape drive being junked.

> No ethernet card either.. (anybody know where to get a DEUNA cheap??)

	In the US there are many places which sell used DEC equipment but
	I do not know of any in the Netherlands.  If at all possible get
	a DELUA insetad  - less power hungry and fewer bugs.

> What are my options to get 2.11BSD running on this beast? 
> 
> I have a uVAX 3600 running NetBSD, so I could possibly dump a raw
> filesystem image onto one of the RA92's and perhaps boot the 11/94
> off of it. Is this feasible? I haven't looked into it yet..

	Yes, it should be possible.  You will need to run one of the emulators
	(either Bob Supnik's or Willi Begemot's "P11").  The tricky part
	will be in the geometry/size of the disk image.  The emulators
	do not know about MSCP drives so you will have to go thru the bootstrap
	process using an SMD ('xp' driver) drive and pretend you have a 
	RP06 or 7.  Then at the last minute install the MSCP bootblock.  
	DD that image to an  RA92 and hoo that up to the /94.
	

	The problem you will most likely encounter is that the size will not
	be exactly right for the last partition.  Experimenting with the
	standalone 'disklabel' program and adjusting the sizes/geometry may
	be needed.  If the size is changed then 'fsck -s' to force a 
	rebuild of the freelist will be needed.

	Experimentation - I think it'd take a few tries to get it right ;)

> I was thinking of using one of those TU58 emulators on the PC, but I 
> didn't find any mention of booting an 11/94 of these tape drives
> or installing UNIX from it..

	No support for the TU58 in the kernel or boot program.   At 256kb
	it's barely large enough to hold the standalone programs much less
	a dump of the root filesystem or anything like that.

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1999-12-17 16:10 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
     [not found] <199912131935.LAA18041@moe.2bsd.com>
1999-12-17 16:10 ` Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Johnny Billquist
     [not found] <991214165541.246000ac@trailing-edge.com>
1999-12-16  9:42 ` Arno Griffioen
1999-12-14 21:19 Steven M. Schultz
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1999-12-13 19:59 Tim Shoppa
1999-12-13  9:18 Arno Griffioen

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