From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 19155 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2021 08:46:58 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Jan 2021 08:46:58 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D32039C82C; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 18:46:54 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95AF39C7D8; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 18:46:13 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=rulingia.com header.i=@rulingia.com header.b="nWptmNIS"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 99FDE9C7D8; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 18:46:09 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 1411 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2021 18:46:07 AEST Received: from vtr.rulingia.com (vtr.rulingia.com [45.77.232.82]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF6599C7D7 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 18:46:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from server.rulingia.com (ppp239-208.static.internode.on.net [59.167.239.208]) by vtr.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 1048M73d003301 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Jan 2021 19:22:12 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 vtr.rulingia.com 1048M73d003301 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=rulingia.com; s=default; t=1609748532; bh=umAJaScN87EI9VtrPl6ivMRutjErboLKeof30gp06Pg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=nWptmNISsIdykSmTCyewCIjC5NKe6l7tPova8uuvTrr+Clqi7pm4SWxX69VjiJ6AE RGWLllmXLvWNijBNBsC+Cc6v6OlUGQyTqEP/Dtob260j/uViqAwYIZyQcuP9ee40Q7 wAgfTFhLwHUjBBKaqk0AQNjek3llYE66+Lx8EhTq146wGqfZoAb45D4Y+Iny1cmX3+ o8cPWUr8HiPiq8JYXbvCP6spjXJBMuAUY5oe8kbNvfYGd816DGee5Jx5lGwYWrtmPW 5Pw2Hf3o741rD8L/D+K6PH5+TtaFT0/SDuYYK/653hVPtjp+Txn8HpyAjhE/wfG+LY E2jN2WLADe7bw== X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 1048M0x6087907 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 4 Jan 2021 19:22:00 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 1048M0cR087906; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 19:22:00 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 19:22:00 +1100 To: Dave Horsfall Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QyzsSD8PZltLX0Bv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp Subject: Re: [TUHS] The 2038 bug... X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Peter Jeremy via TUHS Reply-To: Peter Jeremy Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --QyzsSD8PZltLX0Bv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2020-Dec-31 18:19:39 +1100, Dave Horsfall wrote: >As the new year is about to kick in (down-under anyway), it got me to=20 >thinking (always dangerous): how many here will be around for it to pick= =20 >up the pieces that are no doubt still lying around? Alternatively, my understanding is that the Unix epoch changed on several occasions in the early days. Presumably the knowledge of how to achieve this hasn't been lost. (Though actually performing an epoch rollover may be more difficult today). I suspect that 2038 may actually wind up being more serious than Y2K because there are now far more embedded systems than there were then but it's not clear that the designers of those systems learnt the lesson from Y2K. A few weeks ago I tried to count the number of CPUs in my bedroom, bathroom and study - my best guess is around 2 dozen. Admittedly, I think relatively few of those will be concerned about epoch rollover. Plus 2038 is merely one epoch. Someone mentioned the Microsoft epoch rolling over in 2048. Between those two, the IBM S/360 epoch rolls over in 2042 - the Z-series appears to have glued another 8 bits onto the MSB end of the TOD clock but that won't help all those S/360 and S/370 binaries that are still being run. And they are just the well- known ones. I expect that there are lots of embedded systems running custom epochs with weird rollover dates. --=20 Peter Jeremy --QyzsSD8PZltLX0Bv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEE7rKYbDBnHnTmXCJ+FqWXoOSiCzQFAl/y0CNfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEVF QjI5ODZDMzA2NzFFNzRFNjVDMjI3RTE2QTU5N0EwRTRBMjBCMzQACgkQFqWXoOSi CzT1HA/+JQXyv2Og6JQcDSvYimeY4NGoPNulSlrgE7JWu6V/mawnLckLIrf00tux 0WW+2mCyYT9h2GwtDiZ4OGWxcOlbFqMmr+BSp3B+tzBVyJUihH28+H0JBZrAH2NB Zct+Rcl7wl23vIGIE/oadfeuy/xiAkp87qYyRFPrXz0c4HtucMgMmemUAEfv7RX4 i59GMRSdhpxwLtwNO2HYWpWmIL3bfd2fDbGc4VtrJJYJ3TDuijNcx01ltTCgHHPE 1eR2tIfQTP81wnUKUwQsHz5Q7e2vjuF+AAcJNalAyiaFcRejloCq5wmKDY3OrZGO FnJsSECy5mEgiGtiV9YfKns/w45yGvwBlFCcg8n4chXZa0uH9gYaXa4lVdPk+8lR f4uHWsVRRP+TRu/E/4GLpb40fWSM+3KqeO6Na350ytJVdOdG24I3AwY/qTxHO8BU CSPjUZcx+MDk18SR+klktecoCsKqoSq5vfgv5R1oRbY+dUrTc3aGoxZHR1M4JCnA eOgKTggTMQgxtAknqeDwfx6taY+83jgfKNYzeOnoMxDpRCIuPDpR8U8qjJwu3Z47 9XbzPY7WKf7F9dgFwyeh45Dc8m4CljNZoY/uHNkUVGs5Bi+lCyK3k4d1tPStFd88 gjFKZ0/k8T/O2JXF9tg0pOVRv6soMLYzLpdP9S4UWqmQ9QyxAUQ= =RDxJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QyzsSD8PZltLX0Bv--