From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23644 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2023 14:09:32 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 24 Jan 2023 14:09:32 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68BF4244F; Wed, 25 Jan 2023 00:09:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from lechuck.jsg.id.au (jsg.id.au [193.114.144.202]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC47A42447 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2023 00:09:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from largo.jsg.id.au (largo.jsg.id.au [192.168.1.43]) by lechuck.jsg.id.au (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPS id d21ea16b (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Wed, 25 Jan 2023 01:09:09 +1100 (AEDT) Received: from localhost (largo.jsg.id.au [local]) by largo.jsg.id.au (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id f79ee8b1; Wed, 25 Jan 2023 01:09:08 +1100 (AEDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2023 01:09:08 +1100 From: Jonathan Gray To: segaloco Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: Message-ID-Hash: YMOTD2EANVBKONEN4KAO52IIVULPY6KI X-Message-ID-Hash: YMOTD2EANVBKONEN4KAO52IIVULPY6KI X-MailFrom: jsg@jsg.id.au X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Release 5.0 Vs. System V List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 06:48:44PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote: > Good morning all, currently trying to sort out one matter that still bewi= lders me with this documentation I'm working on scanning. >=20 > So I've got two copies of the "Release 5.0" User's Manual and one copy of= the "System V" User's Manual. I haven't identified the exact differences,= lots of pages...but they certainly are not identical, there are at least a= few commands in one and not the other. >=20 > Given this, and past discussion, it's obvious Release 5.0 is the internal= UNIX version that became System V, but what I'm curious about is if it was= ever released publicly as "Release 5.0" before being branded as System V o= r if the name was System V from the moment the first commercial license was= issued. >=20 > The reason I wonder this is some inconsistencies in the documentation I s= ee out there. So both of my Release 5.0 User's Manuals have the Bell logo = on the front and no mention of the court order to cease using it. Likewise= , all but one of the System V related documents I received recently contain= a Bell logo on the cover next to Western Electric save for the Opeartor's = Guide which curiously doesn't exhibit the front page divestiture message th= at other documents missing the Bell logo include. Furthermore, the actual = cover sheet says "Operator's Guide UNIX System Release 5.0" so technically = not System V. In fact, only the User's Manual, Administrator's Manual, Erro= r Message Manual, Transition Aids, and Release Description specifically say= System V, all the rest don't have a version listed but some list Release 5= =2E0 on their title page. >=20 > Furthering that discrepancy is this which I just purchased: https://www.e= bay.com/itm/314135813726?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3= DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D242152%26meid%3Dd1b5923533b045acae4f14b9dd8b4e57= %26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D14%26sd%3D284965858677%26itm%3D31413581372= 6%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=3Dp2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkp= arms=3Dpageci%3A8d64fbe5-35ed-11ed-8efb-b6aa9c31d728|parentrq%3A47906e53183= 0a0adef7482b3fffe1682|iid%3A1 >=20 > Link lives as of this sending, but contains a closed auction for an Error= Message Manual from the "Release 5.0" documentation line but no Bell logo.= Until the Operator's Guide and this auction link, I haven't seen any "Rel= ease 5.0" branded stuff without a Bell logo, and before I bought the System= V gold set, I hadn't seen System V branded stuff *with* the Bell logo. >=20 > This shatters an assumption that I had made that at the same time the doc= umentation branding shifted to System V was the same time the removal of th= e Bell logo happened, given that divestiture was what allowed them to aggre= ssively market System V, but now this presents four distinct sets of System= V gold documentation: >=20 > Release 5.0 w/ Bell logo > Release 5.0 w/o Bell logo > System V w/ Bell logo > System V w/o Bell logo >=20 > I'm curious if anyone would happen to know what the significance here is.= The covers are all printed, I can't see any indication that a bunch of 5.= 0 manuals were retroactively painted over nor that any System V manuals got= stamped with a Bell post-production. What this means is "Release 5.0" doc= umentation was being shipped post-divestiture and "System V" was being ship= ped pre-divestiture. If Release 5.0 was publicly sold as System V, then wh= at explains the post-divestiture 5.0 manuals floating around in the wild, a= nd vice versa, if USG couldn't effectively market and support UNIX until th= e divestiture, how is it so many "Release 5.0" documents are floating aroun= d in well produced commercial-quality binding, both pre and post-divestitur= e by the time the name "System V" would've been king. Were they still main= taining an internal 5.x branch past System V that warranted its own distinc= t documentation set even into the commercial period? This period right aro= und '82-'83 is incredibly fascinating and I feel very under-documented. For at least the User's Manual and Administrator's Manual there is another version. https://www.ebay.com/itm/204176652924?orig_cvip=3Dtrue UNIX System User's Manual Release 5.0 Including BTL Computer Center Standard and Local Commands June 1982 different cover without mention of Western Electric (another old ebay listing) UNIX System Administrator's Manual Release 5.0 Including BTL Computer Center Standard and Local Commands June 1982 same cover as above user's manual https://books.google.com.au/books/about/UNIX_System_V_Release_2_0.html?id= =3DQg9bNwAACAAJ UNIX System V: Release 2.0, User Reference Manual Including BTL Computer Center Standard and Local Commands December 1983 Pirzada's thesis mentions 5.0, 5.0.1, 5.0.3, 5.0.5 System V 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 2.0, 2.2, 3.0 "Release 5.0, announced in October 1982." "AT&T's divestiture in 1983 allowed UNIX to compete in the commercial market place and on 1st January 1983, Commercial System V was announced. As it was identical to Release 5.0, this was the first time that current version of UNIX in the Labs was licensed outside." http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/att/unix/System_V_Release_1/301-905_UNIX_Syste= m_V_Release_1_Users_Manual_Jan83.pdf UNIX System User's Manual System V January 1983 301-905 Issue 1 'Pursuant to Judge Greene's Order of August 5, 1983, beginning on January 1, 1984, AT&T will cease to use "BELL" and the Bell symbol, with the exceptions as set forth in that Order. Pursuant thereto, any reference to "BELL" and / or the BELL symbol in this document is hereby deleted and "expunged".' AT&T Documentation Guide, 1987: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/att/000-111_ATT_Documentation_Guide_Nov87.pdf UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S GUIDE 301-931 UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S MANUAL 301-926 UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 ERROR MESSAGE MANUAL 301-922 UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 USER'S MANUAL 301-925 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S GUIDE = 301-939 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S MANUAL = 301-906 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT TOOLS GUIDE = 307-235 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE RELEASE NOTES = 307-238 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE SOURCE CODE RELEASE NOTES. = 307-236 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE USER'S GUIDE = 307-234 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 DOCUMENT PROCESSING GUIDE = 341-920 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ERROR MESSAGE MANUAL = 301-907 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 GRAPHICS GUIDE = 341-921 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 OPERATOR'S GUIDE = 301-941 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 PROGRAMMING GUIDE = 341-930 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 REMOTE FILE SHARING UTILITIES REFERENCE CARD = 307-000 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 SUPPORT TOOLS GUIDE = 341-940 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 SYSTEM RELEASE DESCRIPTION INTERNATIONAL VERSION = 307-017 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 TRANSITION AIDS = 301-908 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 USER'S GUIDE = 301-921 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 USER'S MANUAL = 301-905