From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 27432 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2021 15:42:50 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 29 Mar 2021 15:42:50 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 04B3D9C8A4; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 01:42:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFF539C82B; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 01:42:36 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=adamsgaard.dk header.i=@adamsgaard.dk header.b="AIWTiNOd"; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="PTzH5YAV"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id F04A39C82B; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 01:42:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3D269C829 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 01:42:32 +1000 (AEST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E856A5C00E7; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:42:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=adamsgaard.dk; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; s=fm1; bh=XQbQq7DK1pSBxv7aKnY6gnplNae 1Ut0iseSA1C+6IxY=; b=AIWTiNOdS6g6pO13bBzAmgUSoaSs6+lDen1g5zqJ5JU 4qx3eNqP9ne1YykQJDfasGu1NlAVhu6byxlE9hTt/iG4qWFIfm1S6WjDKvSi58ib Of5r1UOLEf0wJiQ26Ca8CDGmMi3Bi2yhcT85bLuA8YzcmKXQ9i/CwhGmfbIGGM9C 0v4uU1OlPcrsDdFnhwad81e/ghoF10l0BZ1laawGHMIdLnzKPJXWkT78Xw9Bhime 0EZQOkCgvaQzwoFFc8vQuLCuMDgD+0RnAH+JZHVvdj1SJBNvP3QGO0cNww9ol4hl /BHi/KTmrLpCOp6Fj3VVClUmq3KhGdvczH8oG8J+NNw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=XQbQq7 DK1pSBxv7aKnY6gnplNae1Ut0iseSA1C+6IxY=; b=PTzH5YAV9VwK0IgzKBfFo0 /btmPmmKoUROadOHG7/7SbD1gEvlTCPLFrL7Y+7bGPJjOGqlU/g4uKQIeaIuR9UE jRJ8Pe2EhDIx7l1Jd/3c75Psvg5n2Oyp+qdbqur3VuxmhQjHgqg8/Gd5NuTsr3il Io5G5V1DQ6XbRBkVgoo8ylFZK2YPrg+9csnTynO2O/FnOYr/tZySlJT3kigvbiIn rwXGIUhbY0yvfqEC976/5jopwao/wbGAMboFgR2XMmAXkRfnrPXLR7zxs18y0gsR b8/1Srn0mSbQHJu7vvI7OOm+taqClaSIFvg8S4/i/3rP1rXg8XR1lYdubMmMDbLQ == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudehkedgleefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtuggjsehttdertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpeetnhguvghr shcuffgrmhhsghgrrghrugcuoegrnhguvghrshesrggurghmshhgrggrrhgurdgukheqne cuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepfeefgfegteefueeulefgtdfghffgvdeuteejgfeihfetjedu udeguddtieefveehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilh hfrhhomheprghnuggvrhhssegruggrmhhsghgrrghrugdrughk X-ME-Proxy: Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 17:42:00 +0200 From: Anders Damsgaard To: Clem Cole Message-ID: References: <20210329143449.GA28080@mcvoy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [TUHS] Remember the ed thread? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" * Clem Cole [2021-03-29 11:37:57 -0400]: >Anders -- good for you. > >That said, as one of those 'grey beards,' can I recommend that you stop, >and go to a technical library or bookstore and find yourself a copy of Rob >and Brian's wonderful book: "*The Unix Programming Environment*" (*a.k.a* >"UPE" or ISBN 0-13-937699-2) *then do the exercises*. That book is still >relevant today - a little secret, I give a copy of it and "*Advanced >Programming in the Unix Environment*" (*a.k.a.* "APUE") to all my new >engineers - even though they are all using 'Linux' for their work. To >those that object at first, I remind them, Linux is just the current and >most popular implementation of the ideas from Ken, Dennis, Doug, and >friends and I'm sure they will learn something from the time invested[1]. > >FWIW: Besides learning ed (which will help you unlock some of the mysteries >of other UNIX tools like grep and sed), take a shot at looking at the >introduction to nroff/troff (as has been discussed here - not to restart a >war). Learning to use a 'document compiler' like the troff family is never >a bad investment. > >Have fun, >Clem > > >1.] BTW I have yet had a young engineer that actually did try the >exercises not come back and say something like "Wow, I never knew ...." I >don't gloat, but I smile inside, know that I just made them a more >effective for our team. If they ask, I point out I had been using UNIX and >hacking on the kernel most every day for at least 10 years when it first >appeared in the early 80's (84/85 I think), and I learned a few tricks when >I read it. I appreciate the kind advice Clem! I'm dipping my toes into heirloom doctools these days, and am delightened by the simplicity, modularity, and speed compared to latex. However, much to learn still so thanks for the nudge. Anders