The Unix Heritage Society mailing list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
To: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] How to Kill a Technical Conference
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:39:00 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YGyAlNWQ8dmBEu8+@mit.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAC20D2MJ41ZToSJKqXLgbSSCAkGuyGCVTPM7-HVMCaPnT79pww@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 03:30:25PM -0400, Clem Cole wrote:
> 
> The issue for the USENIX BOD had always been getting butts in the seats to
> pay the bills.   Academics had a path, so following what IEEE and ACM did
> was well-trod and understood.    Get the more pure hackers like yourself,
> even the engineers inside of places like Sun or Masscomp was often
> difficult and we know was not well understood.  USENIX was hardly the only
> firm/org that made some bets in those days that in the long run might not
> have been the best.

In some ways, this was in large respect a great example of the
innovator's dilemma.  In the mid '90's, before the .com crash of '98,
Unix sales were starting to trend down, but they were still quite
respectable, and while Linux had a huge amount of buzz, a lot of that
was because Linux was cheap as in beer --- which means that when it
came down to the trade show floor revenues at an ATC conference event,
Unix was still bringing in healthy amounts of $$$ at least as compared
with Linux.

And similarly, there were still some --- but not as many as before,
during the "Golden Age" --- decent industry papers getting published
at ATC.  I sometimes suspect (although I have no proof of this) that
one of the reasons why ATC papers were not double blinded ala FAST was
because if there was an important paper from Sun, even if it didn't
meet the high standards of a tenure-track conference, it was desirable
to let a few such papers "slip through".  For the most part, those
industry papers were still better (from the let's not embarass the
tenure-track professors) perspective than a typical Linux paper, but
papers which were *really* not written to the academic style would
certainly either get rejected, or there would be strong pressure
placed on the writers to make them seem more "academic".

Ultimately, ATC (with or without its USELINUX track) was trying to
serve two masters, and while there were some techniques such as having
invited talks track which worked at least moderately well, at the end
of the day, if one of the goals of an attendee who happens to be a
Linux developer is to be able to meet a critical mass of other Linux
developers, it was always going to be hard for ATC to be able to serve
that need as well as the needs of Usenix's other constiuents --- which
were, after all, far more established within Usenix.

      	    	     	  	      	     - Ted

  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-04-06 15:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-04-01 14:50 [TUHS] Zombified SCO comes back from the dead, brings trial back to life against IBM Josh Good
2021-04-01 15:12 ` Warner Losh
2021-04-01 15:27   ` Josh Good
2021-04-01 15:33     ` Larry McVoy
2021-04-01 16:14       ` Kevin Bowling
2021-04-01 16:26         ` John Cowan
2021-04-01 17:54       ` Thomas Paulsen
2021-04-01 16:27     ` Nemo Nusquam
2021-04-02  2:16     ` Kevin Bowling
2021-04-02  3:52   ` Wesley Parish
2021-04-02  5:26     ` Kevin Bowling
2021-04-02 16:03     ` Clem Cole
2021-04-02 16:11       ` Larry McVoy
2021-04-02 16:39       ` Heinz Lycklama
2021-04-02 17:14         ` Clem Cole
2021-04-02 17:17       ` [TUHS] AIX repeat [was " Charles H Sauer
2021-04-03  1:24       ` [TUHS] " Wesley Parish
2021-04-04  2:46     ` Adam Thornton
2021-04-04  2:50       ` Adam Thornton
2021-04-04  5:29         ` [TUHS] How to Kill a Technical Conference (was: Zombified SCO comes back from the dead, brings trial back to life against IBM) G. Branden Robinson
2021-04-04 18:22           ` Clem Cole
2021-04-04 20:54             ` Richard Salz
2021-04-04 21:11             ` Clem Cole
2021-04-05  0:36             ` John Cowan
2021-04-05  2:19               ` Warner Losh
2021-04-05 18:07                 ` [TUHS] How to Kill a Technical Conference John Gilmore
2021-04-05 19:30                   ` Clem Cole
2021-04-05 20:34                     ` Richard Salz
2021-04-05 20:42                       ` William Cheswick
2021-04-06  4:37                       ` Ed Bradford
2021-04-05 20:39                     ` Larry McVoy
2021-04-05 21:11                       ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-04-05 21:17                         ` Dan Cross
2021-04-06 15:39                     ` Theodore Ts'o [this message]
2021-04-06  5:49                   ` Dave Horsfall
2021-04-05  7:48               ` [TUHS] Whither Usenix [was How To Kill A Technical Conference] arnold
2021-04-05 14:05             ` [TUHS] How to Kill a Technical Conference (was: Zombified SCO comes back from the dead, brings trial back to life against IBM) Theodore Ts'o
2021-04-05 22:26               ` David Arnold
2021-04-04 23:30           ` A. P. Garcia
2021-04-04  3:41       ` [TUHS] Zombified SCO comes back from the dead, brings trial back to life against IBM Gregg Levine
2021-04-04  3:57         ` Adam Thornton
2021-04-02  5:41 ` David Arnold
2021-04-02  6:09   ` Steve Nickolas
2021-04-02  7:00     ` arnold
2021-04-02  9:53       ` Steve Nickolas
2021-04-02 10:26         ` arnold
2021-04-02 14:02           ` Josh Good
2021-04-02 14:17             ` Steve Nickolas
2021-04-02 15:16               ` Larry McVoy
2021-04-02 15:28                 ` Fabio Scotoni
2021-04-03  1:50                 ` Dave Horsfall
2021-04-03  1:55                   ` Warner Losh
2021-04-03  2:23                   ` Larry McVoy
2021-04-03  2:34                     ` Earl Baugh
2021-04-03  6:16                   ` Dan Stromberg
2021-04-04 16:18                     ` Tony Finch
2021-04-04  1:48                   ` David Arnold
2021-04-04  2:23                     ` Larry McVoy
2021-04-04  8:55                       ` Josh Good
2021-04-04 14:43                         ` Michael Parson
2021-04-04 15:36                         ` Warner Losh
2021-04-04 16:15                           ` Clem Cole
2021-04-04 22:25                             ` David Arnold
2021-04-04 22:55                               ` Clem Cole
2021-04-05  2:30                                 ` Dave Horsfall
2021-04-04 23:00                               ` Bakul Shah
2021-04-04 23:33                                 ` Clem Cole
2021-04-05  1:34                                   ` Bakul Shah
2021-04-05  2:58                                     ` Kenneth Goodwin
2021-04-05 12:35                                       ` John Cowan
2021-04-05 20:44                                   ` Kevin Bowling
2021-04-04 23:34                               ` Josh Good
2021-04-04 20:08                         ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2021-04-04 21:00                           ` Jon Steinhart
2021-04-04 21:40                             ` Clem Cole
2021-04-04 21:54                               ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2021-04-04 22:02                                 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-04-04 21:58                               ` Clem Cole
2021-04-04 23:48                             ` Dave Horsfall
2021-04-04 23:53                               ` Larry McVoy
2021-04-07  5:15                             ` Dan Stromberg
2021-04-05 13:37                       ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-04-07  1:52                         ` Adam Thornton
2021-04-02 15:25               ` Josh Good
2021-04-03  3:10               ` John Cowan
2021-04-02 16:40 ` Boyd Lynn Gerber

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=YGyAlNWQ8dmBEu8+@mit.edu \
    --to=tytso@mit.edu \
    --cc=clemc@ccc.com \
    --cc=tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).