From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 13783 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2021 15:39:52 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 6 Apr 2021 15:39:52 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 8FBA69CAED; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 01:39:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B49109C883; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 01:39:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2D8A39C883; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 01:39:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 557F79C83D for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 01:39:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from cwcc.thunk.org (pool-72-74-133-215.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [72.74.133.215]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 136Fd0U0031264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:39:01 -0400 Received: by cwcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 700E315C3B0C; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:39:00 -0400 From: "Theodore Ts'o" To: Clem Cole Message-ID: References: <20210404052939.xivuinlcugqb5zde@localhost.localdomain> <19643.1617646039@hop.toad.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [TUHS] How to Kill a Technical Conference X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 03:30:25PM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > > The issue for the USENIX BOD had always been getting butts in the seats to > pay the bills. Academics had a path, so following what IEEE and ACM did > was well-trod and understood. Get the more pure hackers like yourself, > even the engineers inside of places like Sun or Masscomp was often > difficult and we know was not well understood. USENIX was hardly the only > firm/org that made some bets in those days that in the long run might not > have been the best. In some ways, this was in large respect a great example of the innovator's dilemma. In the mid '90's, before the .com crash of '98, Unix sales were starting to trend down, but they were still quite respectable, and while Linux had a huge amount of buzz, a lot of that was because Linux was cheap as in beer --- which means that when it came down to the trade show floor revenues at an ATC conference event, Unix was still bringing in healthy amounts of $$$ at least as compared with Linux. And similarly, there were still some --- but not as many as before, during the "Golden Age" --- decent industry papers getting published at ATC. I sometimes suspect (although I have no proof of this) that one of the reasons why ATC papers were not double blinded ala FAST was because if there was an important paper from Sun, even if it didn't meet the high standards of a tenure-track conference, it was desirable to let a few such papers "slip through". For the most part, those industry papers were still better (from the let's not embarass the tenure-track professors) perspective than a typical Linux paper, but papers which were *really* not written to the academic style would certainly either get rejected, or there would be strong pressure placed on the writers to make them seem more "academic". Ultimately, ATC (with or without its USELINUX track) was trying to serve two masters, and while there were some techniques such as having invited talks track which worked at least moderately well, at the end of the day, if one of the goals of an attendee who happens to be a Linux developer is to be able to meet a critical mass of other Linux developers, it was always going to be hard for ATC to be able to serve that need as well as the needs of Usenix's other constiuents --- which were, after all, far more established within Usenix. - Ted