From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 22969 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2021 17:41:32 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 14 Jul 2021 17:41:32 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 224A29C187; Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:41:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5AB95038; Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:41:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7CCC895038; Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:40:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63B2B94566 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:40:57 +1000 (AEST) Received: from callcc.thunk.org (96-65-121-81-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [96.65.121.81]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 16EHeroi029004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 14 Jul 2021 13:40:54 -0400 Received: by callcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 5B1FC4202F5; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 13:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2021 13:40:53 -0400 From: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" To: Clem Cole Message-ID: References: <213a4c11-3ab2-4b4a-8d6b-b52105a19711@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [TUHS] [COFF] 386BSD released X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 11:01:58AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > By formal definition, the tarball and the rest of UNIX from Research is and > always has been, '*Open Source*' in the sources were available. *But they > were licensed*. This was fairly typical of much early software BTW. The > binary nature only came about with the minicomputers. It may have been "Open Source" by your definition, but there is a very specific definition of "Open Source(tm)" and it has always been, from the beginning, defined to mean code licensed under terms which meet the Open Source Definition[1] (OSD). The AT&T license, for better or for worse does not mean the terms of the OSD. [1] https://opensource.org/osd > The sources in the tarball were not '*Free and Open Source*' -- which > becomes the crux of the issue. [Sadly the OSS folks have confused this > over the years and that important detail is lost]. Hardly. "Free and Open Source" (FOSS) is a term which developed *after* the the term "Open Source" was coined and trademarked. That term was not created by the "OSS folks", but by people who were trying the solve a political problem. The GPL meets the definition of the Open Source Definition, so GPL-licensed software is "Open Source(tm)". But Stallman objected to that usage, preferring his terminology "Free Software" on the grounds that it came first. So FOSS was a compromise to keep the FSF partisan happy. But to take this back to TUHS, sorry, no code which falls under AT&T License can be called "Open Source(tm)". If AT&T were still trying to sell Unix under its original terms including the AT&T Unpublished Trade Secret "all your student's minds belong to us" license, and tried to claim that Unix was "Open Source", the Open Source Initiative could sue AT&T for trademark infringement. If you must, you could try to claim that AT&T was "Source Available" --- which is a terminology I've seen some used. But I think your assumptions of how easily the AT&T License could be obtained, and how "anyone who wanted it could get it" may be looking at the past with rose-colored classes. Cheers, - Ted