From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 19224 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2021 20:26:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Jul 2021 20:26:29 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5DFBF94586; Sat, 10 Jul 2021 06:26:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F18D593D7A; Sat, 10 Jul 2021 06:26:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 82F4E93D7A; Sat, 10 Jul 2021 06:26:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B06B793D3C for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2021 06:26:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from cwcc.thunk.org (pool-72-74-133-215.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [72.74.133.215]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 169KQBxG022374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:26:12 -0400 Received: by cwcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 32DAC15C3C9E; Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:26:11 -0400 From: "Theodore Ts'o" To: Jon Steinhart Message-ID: References: <202107090449.1694nbum2752949@darkstar.fourwinds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <202107090449.1694nbum2752949@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Subject: Re: [TUHS] The Unix shell: a 50-year view -- feedback wanted X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 09:49:37PM -0700, Jon Steinhart wrote: > o It's hard to imagine that the application of this technique is all that's > required for a 50-year life extension. The title of this paper implies > that it's going to be comprehensive rather than just being a shameless > plus for an author's project. Spelling nit: I believe you meant to say "shameless plug..." (s/plus/plug/) > It appears that all of you are in academia. I can't imagine that a paper > like this would pass muster in front of any thesis committee, much less > get that far. Not only for content, but for lack of proofreading and > editing. The fact that the ACM would publish such a paper eliminates any > regret that I may have had in dropping my ACM membership. It looks like this was originally a position paper for the Workshop on Hot Topics in Operating Systems (aka HotOS). As a workshop paper, it would have had a much lower standard of than say, if this was being presented at say, SOSP or ASPLOS. Workshop papers are supposed to be provocative and suggest "new directions". Sometimes new directions turn out to just be dead ends, and while some things presented at workshops will grow up to be a full paper at a highly respected conference, other ideas get presented at a workshop and are never heard from again. :-) I'd have to think to come up with examples, but I'm pretty sure I've seen sillier ideas as workshops papers. More impractical ideas, for certain. I have observed that the things that will get funding for academic research, and things which are considered interesting from a industry or practitioner's perspective, tends to diverge in any field, and the divergence increases over time. It might or might not be the case that "the shell is a promising area of research". Even if it is true, there are plenty of things which generate research papers, and serve to help education graduate students, but which ultimately end up being completely useless from the industry practitioners perspective. I may be overly cynical, but there are plenty of papers at many a conference, even highly respected ones by tenture-track committees, which inspires nothing but a yawn from me, and personally, that doesn't bother me; what consenting adults do within the confines of academia is their business. Again, I've seen worse in terms of "my tax dollars at play". If we're lucky, even if the actual object of the research is useless, sometimes it can sparc some insight that makes my time spent at such a conference not a complete waste --- and even if it isn't at least it's fertile recruiting ground for new college grads for $WORK. :-) - Ted