The Unix Heritage Society mailing list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
To: Douglas McIlroy <douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] head/sed/tail (was The Unix shell: a 50-year view)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 10:28:04 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YPBF9GUgDw2Qa1nt@mit.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKH6PiWDnDBEE9vWRU+6kAuEcMNFdpJ9tiv0=9VUr-LMJRRBbw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 10:38:06PM -0400, Douglas McIlroy wrote:
> Head might not have been written if tail didn't exist. But, unlike head,
> tail strayed from the tao of "do one thing well". Tail -r and tail -f are
> as cringeworthy as cat -v.
> 
> -f is a strange feature that effectively turns a regular file into a pipe
> with memory by polling for new data, A clean general alternative
> might be to provide an open(2) mode that makes reads at the current
> file end block if some process has the file open for writing.

OTOH, this would mean adding more functionality (read: complexity)
into the kernel, and there has always been a general desire to avoid
pushing <stuff> into the kernel when it can be done in userspace.  Do
you really think using a blocking read(2) is somehow more superior
than using select(2) to wait for new data to be appended to the file?

And even if we did this using a new open(2) mode, are you saying we
should have a separate executable in /bin which would then be
identical to cat, except that it uses a different open(2) mode?

> -r is weird because it enables backwards reading, but only as
> limited by count. Better would be a program, say revfile, that simply
> reads backwards by lines. Then tail p  has an elegant implementation:
>        revfile p | head | revfile

I'll note, with amusement, that -r is one option which is *NOT* in the
GNU version of tail.  I see it in FreeBSD, but this looks like a
BSD'ism.  So for those like to claim that the GNU utilities have laden
with useless options, this is one which can't be left at the feet of
GNU coreutils.

					- Ted

  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-07-15 14:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-07-15  2:38 Douglas McIlroy
2021-07-15  4:19 ` arnold
2021-07-15  4:25   ` Adam Thornton
2021-07-15  7:20   ` Thomas Paulsen
2021-07-15 14:28 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o [this message]
2021-07-15 22:29 ` Bakul Shah
2021-07-15 15:44 Norman Wilson
2021-07-15 16:54 Nelson H. F. Beebe
2021-07-15 19:01 Norman Wilson
2021-07-15 19:27 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-15 19:28   ` Clem Cole
2021-07-15 19:34   ` Warner Losh
2021-07-16  7:38     ` arnold
2021-07-16 16:09       ` Warner Losh
2021-07-16  8:05   ` Lars Brinkhoff
2021-07-16 14:19     ` Clem Cole
2021-07-17  0:34       ` Charles Anthony
2021-07-15 21:26 Paul Ruizendaal
2021-07-15 22:00 Douglas McIlroy
2021-07-15 22:12 ` John Cowan
2021-07-15 22:26 Nelson H. F. Beebe
2021-07-15 23:18 ` Jim Davis
2021-07-16  0:02   ` John Floren
2021-07-16  1:02     ` Nelson H. F. Beebe
2021-07-16  8:27     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2021-07-16 15:28       ` John Floren
2021-07-16  0:02 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-16  0:25   ` Nelson H. F. Beebe
2021-07-16  8:50     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2021-07-16 12:09 Douglas McIlroy
2021-07-16 14:32 ` Bakul Shah
     [not found] <CAKH6PiW58PDPb5HRi12aKE+mT+O8AjETr9R51Db6U3KcEp_KkA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-16 14:17 ` Nelson H. F. Beebe
2021-07-16 16:13   ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2021-07-18 20:07 Douglas McIlroy

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=YPBF9GUgDw2Qa1nt@mit.edu \
    --to=tytso@mit.edu \
    --cc=douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu \
    --cc=tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).