The Unix Heritage Society mailing list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
* [TUHS] Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
@ 2023-03-08  7:26 segaloco via TUHS
  2023-03-08 10:02 ` [TUHS] " Angelo Papenhoff
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: segaloco via TUHS @ 2023-03-08  7:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

So I decided to keep the momentum and have just finished the first pass of a Fifth Edition manual restoration based on the same process I used for 3B20 4.1:

https://gitlab.com/segaloco/v5man

There were a few pages missing from the extant PDF scan, at least as far as pages that were in both V4 and V6 sources, so those are handled by seeing how V5 source of the few programs compares to V6.  I'll note which pages required this in a second pass.

I've set my sights on V1 and V2 next, using V3's extant roff sources as a starting point, so more to come.

- Matt G.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-08  7:26 [TUHS] Fifth Edition Manual Restoration segaloco via TUHS
@ 2023-03-08 10:02 ` Angelo Papenhoff
  2023-03-08 16:02   ` segaloco via TUHS
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Angelo Papenhoff @ 2023-03-08 10:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: segaloco via TUHS

I've done this a couple of years ago:
http://squoze.net/UNIX

Cheers,
Angelo

On 08/03/23, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> So I decided to keep the momentum and have just finished the first pass of a Fifth Edition manual restoration based on the same process I used for 3B20 4.1:
> 
> https://gitlab.com/segaloco/v5man
> 
> There were a few pages missing from the extant PDF scan, at least as far as pages that were in both V4 and V6 sources, so those are handled by seeing how V5 source of the few programs compares to V6.  I'll note which pages required this in a second pass.
> 
> I've set my sights on V1 and V2 next, using V3's extant roff sources as a starting point, so more to come.
> 
> - Matt G.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-08 10:02 ` [TUHS] " Angelo Papenhoff
@ 2023-03-08 16:02   ` segaloco via TUHS
  2023-03-08 16:30     ` Angelo Papenhoff
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: segaloco via TUHS @ 2023-03-08 16:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Angelo Papenhoff; +Cc: segaloco via TUHS

Ouch....well I'm glad I shared then, I had no idea someone had already done this....well good to know, I guess I can move on to the CB and MERT manuals then.

- Matt G.

------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, March 8th, 2023 at 2:02 AM, Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:


> I've done this a couple of years ago:
> http://squoze.net/UNIX
> 
> Cheers,
> Angelo
> 
> On 08/03/23, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> 
> > So I decided to keep the momentum and have just finished the first pass of a Fifth Edition manual restoration based on the same process I used for 3B20 4.1:
> > 
> > https://gitlab.com/segaloco/v5man
> > 
> > There were a few pages missing from the extant PDF scan, at least as far as pages that were in both V4 and V6 sources, so those are handled by seeing how V5 source of the few programs compares to V6. I'll note which pages required this in a second pass.
> > 
> > I've set my sights on V1 and V2 next, using V3's extant roff sources as a starting point, so more to come.
> > 
> > - Matt G.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-08 16:02   ` segaloco via TUHS
@ 2023-03-08 16:30     ` Angelo Papenhoff
  2023-03-08 20:55       ` josh
  2023-03-08 23:09       ` David Arnold
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Angelo Papenhoff @ 2023-03-08 16:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: segaloco via TUHS

Something I'd like is to recreate the original troff output exactly. I
used troff from plan 9 (so same lineage as original troff) but something
causes the output to not look exactly like the original. I don't
remember what it is exactly but you can easily check by comparing my
pdfs with the scan. Line lengths, page length, something like that.

I don't know if this is just a troff setting or if troff had changed
enough to cause this difference. Unfortunately the original troff is
lost so no way to compare. v7 (or PWB?) is the earliest version of troff
that's still around. And even then one would need CAT emulation, which I
haven't bothered with yet.

Cheers,
Angelo


On 08/03/23, segaloco wrote:
> Ouch....well I'm glad I shared then, I had no idea someone had already done this....well good to know, I guess I can move on to the CB and MERT manuals then.
> 
> - Matt G.
> 
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Wednesday, March 8th, 2023 at 2:02 AM, Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
> 
> 
> > I've done this a couple of years ago:
> > http://squoze.net/UNIX
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Angelo
> > 
> > On 08/03/23, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> > 
> > > So I decided to keep the momentum and have just finished the first pass of a Fifth Edition manual restoration based on the same process I used for 3B20 4.1:
> > > 
> > > https://gitlab.com/segaloco/v5man
> > > 
> > > There were a few pages missing from the extant PDF scan, at least as far as pages that were in both V4 and V6 sources, so those are handled by seeing how V5 source of the few programs compares to V6. I'll note which pages required this in a second pass.
> > > 
> > > I've set my sights on V1 and V2 next, using V3's extant roff sources as a starting point, so more to come.
> > > 
> > > - Matt G.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-08 16:30     ` Angelo Papenhoff
@ 2023-03-08 20:55       ` josh
  2023-03-08 22:21         ` segaloco via TUHS
  2023-03-08 23:09       ` David Arnold
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: josh @ 2023-03-08 20:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Angelo Papenhoff; +Cc: segaloco via TUHS

Hi Angelo,

G. Branden Robinson, (CCed on this email) attempted a somewhat similar mission,
re-typesetting the paper "Typesetting Mathematics by Kernighan and Cherry" with
groff. If you look through the email thread detailing the result [1], you can
see notes about aesthetic regressions from the original troff document, and
Branden's attempts to fix them. Hope you don't mind me summoning you, Branden
:).

[1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2022-07/msg00000.html

Additionally (though unrelated to roff), the Computerphile youtube channel has
a video [2] you may find interesting titled "Recreating Dennis Ritchie's PhD
Thesis", in which they discuss how they went about making a faithful recreation
of dmr's unsubmitted PhD thesis.

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82TxNejKsng

Hope this generates some interesting discussion? :)
Josh


On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 11:30 AM Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
>
> Something I'd like is to recreate the original troff output exactly. I
> used troff from plan 9 (so same lineage as original troff) but something
> causes the output to not look exactly like the original. I don't
> remember what it is exactly but you can easily check by comparing my
> pdfs with the scan. Line lengths, page length, something like that.
>
> I don't know if this is just a troff setting or if troff had changed
> enough to cause this difference. Unfortunately the original troff is
> lost so no way to compare. v7 (or PWB?) is the earliest version of troff
> that's still around. And even then one would need CAT emulation, which I
> haven't bothered with yet.
>
> Cheers,
> Angelo
>
>
> On 08/03/23, segaloco wrote:
> > Ouch....well I'm glad I shared then, I had no idea someone had already done this....well good to know, I guess I can move on to the CB and MERT manuals then.
> >
> > - Matt G.
> >
> > ------- Original Message -------
> > On Wednesday, March 8th, 2023 at 2:02 AM, Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I've done this a couple of years ago:
> > > http://squoze.net/UNIX
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Angelo
> > >
> > > On 08/03/23, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> > >
> > > > So I decided to keep the momentum and have just finished the first pass of a Fifth Edition manual restoration based on the same process I used for 3B20 4.1:
> > > >
> > > > https://gitlab.com/segaloco/v5man
> > > >
> > > > There were a few pages missing from the extant PDF scan, at least as far as pages that were in both V4 and V6 sources, so those are handled by seeing how V5 source of the few programs compares to V6. I'll note which pages required this in a second pass.
> > > >
> > > > I've set my sights on V1 and V2 next, using V3's extant roff sources as a starting point, so more to come.
> > > >
> > > > - Matt G.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-08 20:55       ` josh
@ 2023-03-08 22:21         ` segaloco via TUHS
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: segaloco via TUHS @ 2023-03-08 22:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: josh; +Cc: segaloco via TUHS

I will add the caveat that typesetting accuracy isn't my primary goal although it is a secondary one.  My primary goal is easily diffable sources between versions to then facilitate version analysis.  I intend to take this same approach to plenty of other documents we have lying around in scanned form to try and get a better machine-readable body of research material available, including stuff like the Documents for UNIX PWB 1.0 and Release 4.1 sets and the CB-UNIX sources we have bumping around the archive.  Part of my reasoning on putting these in git archives as I go is so that if someone does want to come do some editing, corrections, etc. they're free to fork or raise a PR on my repositories.

- Matt G.

------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, March 8th, 2023 at 12:32 PM, josh <joshnatis0@gmail.com> wrote:


> Hi Angelo,
> 
> G. Branden Robinson, (CCed on this email) attempted a somewhat similar mission,
> re-typesetting the paper "Typesetting Mathematics by Kernighan and Cherry" with
> groff. If you look through the email thread detailing the result [1], you can
> see notes about aesthetic regressions from the original troff document, and
> Branden's attempts to fix them. Hope you don't mind me summoning you, Branden
> :).
> 
> [1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2022-07/msg00000.html
> 
> Additionally (though unrelated to roff), the Computerphile youtube channel has
> a video [2] you may find interesting titled "Recreating Dennis Ritchie's PhD
> Thesis", in which they discuss how they went about making a faithful recreation
> of dmr's unsubmitted PhD thesis.
> 
> [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82TxNejKsng
> 
> Hope this generates some interesting discussion? :)
> Josh
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 11:30 AM Angelo Papenhoff aap@papnet.eu wrote:
> 
> > Something I'd like is to recreate the original troff output exactly. I
> > used troff from plan 9 (so same lineage as original troff) but something
> > causes the output to not look exactly like the original. I don't
> > remember what it is exactly but you can easily check by comparing my
> > pdfs with the scan. Line lengths, page length, something like that.
> > 
> > I don't know if this is just a troff setting or if troff had changed
> > enough to cause this difference. Unfortunately the original troff is
> > lost so no way to compare. v7 (or PWB?) is the earliest version of troff
> > that's still around. And even then one would need CAT emulation, which I
> > haven't bothered with yet.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Angelo
> > 
> > On 08/03/23, segaloco wrote:
> > 
> > > Ouch....well I'm glad I shared then, I had no idea someone had already done this....well good to know, I guess I can move on to the CB and MERT manuals then.
> > > 
> > > - Matt G.
> > > 
> > > ------- Original Message -------
> > > On Wednesday, March 8th, 2023 at 2:02 AM, Angelo Papenhoff aap@papnet.eu wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I've done this a couple of years ago:
> > > > http://squoze.net/UNIX
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Angelo
> > > > 
> > > > On 08/03/23, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > So I decided to keep the momentum and have just finished the first pass of a Fifth Edition manual restoration based on the same process I used for 3B20 4.1:
> > > > > 
> > > > > https://gitlab.com/segaloco/v5man
> > > > > 
> > > > > There were a few pages missing from the extant PDF scan, at least as far as pages that were in both V4 and V6 sources, so those are handled by seeing how V5 source of the few programs compares to V6. I'll note which pages required this in a second pass.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I've set my sights on V1 and V2 next, using V3's extant roff sources as a starting point, so more to come.
> > > > > 
> > > > > - Matt G.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-08 16:30     ` Angelo Papenhoff
  2023-03-08 20:55       ` josh
@ 2023-03-08 23:09       ` David Arnold
  2023-03-09  6:59         ` arnold
  2023-03-09 14:24         ` Clem Cole
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: David Arnold @ 2023-03-08 23:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Angelo Papenhoff; +Cc: segaloco via TUHS

> On 9 Mar 2023, at 03:30, Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
> And even then one would need CAT emulation, which I
> haven't bothered with yet.

That sounds like a fun project — is there really no such beast already?




d


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-08 23:09       ` David Arnold
@ 2023-03-09  6:59         ` arnold
  2023-03-09 14:24         ` Clem Cole
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2023-03-09  6:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: davida, aap; +Cc: tuhs

David Arnold <davida@pobox.com> wrote:

> > On 9 Mar 2023, at 03:30, Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
>
> > And even then one would need CAT emulation, which I
> > haven't bothered with yet.
>
> That sounds like a fun project — is there really no such beast already?

It certainly was done in the past. There were commercial and
posted-to-usenet versions of such things, search the comp.sources.*
and net.sources.* archives.

Such things would date from the mid-80s; if you find something, you'd
probably have to do some work to bring it up on a modern system,
but I doubt it'd be terrible.

Arnold

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-08 23:09       ` David Arnold
  2023-03-09  6:59         ` arnold
@ 2023-03-09 14:24         ` Clem Cole
  2023-03-09 20:48           ` Rob Pike
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2023-03-09 14:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: David Arnold; +Cc: segaloco via TUHS

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1255 bytes --]

As far as I know, Tom Ferrin wrote the original in the late 1970s - it is
on the original UCSF tape as part of his UNIX graphics tools.   That said,
Joy may have passed it along on the BSD tapes also. It's called "vcat" and
converts Wang C/A/T codes to plotter strokes on a smaller (11/12in wide
IIRC) Varian (originally) and small Versatec [wet / kerosene style] plotter
using the 200 bpi Hershey fonts that the CMU/MIT/Stanford XGP had used.
 IIRC, UCB had a large format Versatec (36"/48") and the UCB version could
do N pages at a time.   In the Adobe 'transcript' package is a similar
program (based on Tom work) but outputs using Adobe Fonts.

It might take some searching "foo" to find them, but Tom's program is what
most of us used back in the day before the Imagen and later Apple
LaserWriter - particularly after having had access to an XGP or a Xerox
Dover in college ;-)
ᐧ

On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 6:10 PM David Arnold <davida@pobox.com> wrote:

> > On 9 Mar 2023, at 03:30, Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
>
> …
>
> > And even then one would need CAT emulation, which I
> > haven't bothered with yet.
>
> That sounds like a fun project — is there really no such beast already?
>
>
>
>
> d
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2216 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-09 14:24         ` Clem Cole
@ 2023-03-09 20:48           ` Rob Pike
  2023-03-09 21:04             ` Dave Horsfall
                               ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2023-03-09 20:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: segaloco via TUHS

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3386 bytes --]

I had an idea. I asked Tom Duff, Mike Tilson, Bill Reeves to help me put
together tools and font digitizations to "print" nroff output to the
Versatec plotter one weekend in early 1978. Ron Baecker, their adviser,
came in Monday morning furious that they had been hacking instead of
working on their thesis. When he saw what we were doing, his tone changed
completely and he asked if he could use it to send out a grant application
he was working on. I used it for my 4th year optics thesis, which caused my
prof to say I had obviously plagiarized it from somewhere, because there
was otherwise no way to produce something that looked like that (Xeroxed
Versatec paper). I had to work hard to convince him I had not cheated.

Later that year we, mostly Bill, coupled it to troff, along with some
digitized fonts, and it went out on the Toronto tapes, with our names on
it. For many years I saw evidence in scientific papers of people using
Bill's digitization of the Bodoni fonts.

This is where it gets interesting.

Berkeley took it, tweaked it some - improved it yes, but it was
substantially our code - and shipped it out, with our names removed and
"Copyright the Regents of the University of California" across the top. I
was seriously pissed but there was really nothing I could do about it.
Years later I finally asked Joy about it, and his unapologetic answer was
their lawyers didn't want our names on their software so they dropped them.

When Dennis Ritchie and Greg Chesson - together, yikes - were interviewing
me for my job at Bell Labs, Dennis, holding my resume, asked why I had had
worked on Versatec support for nroff and troff when Berkeley had already
done it. I believe the force of my reply helped convince them I was worth
hiring.

Years later, bless him, Henry Spencer said something on Usenet explaining
why the "Berkeley typesetting software" was missing the names of those who
created it. He was in the lab that weekend and saw it happen.

-rob


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:25 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> As far as I know, Tom Ferrin wrote the original in the late 1970s - it is
> on the original UCSF tape as part of his UNIX graphics tools.   That said,
> Joy may have passed it along on the BSD tapes also. It's called "vcat" and
> converts Wang C/A/T codes to plotter strokes on a smaller (11/12in wide
> IIRC) Varian (originally) and small Versatec [wet / kerosene style] plotter
> using the 200 bpi Hershey fonts that the CMU/MIT/Stanford XGP had used.
>  IIRC, UCB had a large format Versatec (36"/48") and the UCB version could
> do N pages at a time.   In the Adobe 'transcript' package is a similar
> program (based on Tom work) but outputs using Adobe Fonts.
>
> It might take some searching "foo" to find them, but Tom's program is what
> most of us used back in the day before the Imagen and later Apple
> LaserWriter - particularly after having had access to an XGP or a Xerox
> Dover in college ;-)
> ᐧ
>
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 6:10 PM David Arnold <davida@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> > On 9 Mar 2023, at 03:30, Angelo Papenhoff <aap@papnet.eu> wrote:
>>
>> …
>>
>> > And even then one would need CAT emulation, which I
>> > haven't bothered with yet.
>>
>> That sounds like a fun project — is there really no such beast already?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> d
>>
>>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 5587 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-09 20:48           ` Rob Pike
@ 2023-03-09 21:04             ` Dave Horsfall
  2023-03-09 22:32             ` Rich Salz
                               ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2023-03-09 21:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Fri, 10 Mar 2023, Rob Pike wrote:

> I had an idea. I asked Tom Duff, Mike Tilson, Bill Reeves to help me put 
> together tools and font digitizations to "print" nroff output to the 
> Versatec plotter one weekend in early 1978. [...]

We did something like that for our LV-11; I vaguely remember italics being 
implemented by "sloping" the text, and bold by offsetting by a dot.

Mind you, that Versatec spent most of its time plotting biorhythm charts 
for the operators and their GFs; well, this was the 70s, man...

-- Dave

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-09 20:48           ` Rob Pike
  2023-03-09 21:04             ` Dave Horsfall
@ 2023-03-09 22:32             ` Rich Salz
  2023-03-09 23:51             ` Jeremy C. Reed
  2023-03-10  7:50             ` Jonathan Gray
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Rich Salz @ 2023-03-09 22:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rob Pike; +Cc: segaloco via TUHS

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 211 bytes --]

> Years later I finally asked Joy about it, and his unapologetic answer was
their lawyers didn't want our names on their software so they dropped them.

I am *SO GLAD* that things don't work like that any more.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 319 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-09 20:48           ` Rob Pike
  2023-03-09 21:04             ` Dave Horsfall
  2023-03-09 22:32             ` Rich Salz
@ 2023-03-09 23:51             ` Jeremy C. Reed
  2023-03-10  1:58               ` Rob Pike
  2023-03-10  6:33               ` Jonathan Gray
  2023-03-10  7:50             ` Jonathan Gray
  3 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jeremy C. Reed @ 2023-03-09 23:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rob Pike; +Cc: TUHS

On Fri, 10 Mar 2023, Rob Pike wrote:

> Later that year we, mostly Bill, coupled it to troff, along with some
> digitized fonts, and it went out on the Toronto tapes, with our names on it.
> For many years I saw evidence in scientific papers of people using Bill's
> digitization of the Bodoni fonts.

Do you recall the name of this software or project? I tried various 
greps in a few of the Usenix archives but cannot tell what it is.
Thanks

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-09 23:51             ` Jeremy C. Reed
@ 2023-03-10  1:58               ` Rob Pike
  2023-03-10  6:33               ` Jonathan Gray
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2023-03-10  1:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jeremy C. Reed; +Cc: TUHS

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 740 bytes --]

We just called it the Toronto typesetting software, but I don't know if it
ever had a real name. As I wrote, it's on the Toronto distribution tape
from the late '70s.

-rob


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 10:51 AM Jeremy C. Reed <reed@reedmedia.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Mar 2023, Rob Pike wrote:
>
> > Later that year we, mostly Bill, coupled it to troff, along with some
> > digitized fonts, and it went out on the Toronto tapes, with our names on
> it.
> > For many years I saw evidence in scientific papers of people using Bill's
> > digitization of the Bodoni fonts.
>
> Do you recall the name of this software or project? I tried various
> greps in a few of the Usenix archives but cannot tell what it is.
> Thanks
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1339 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-09 23:51             ` Jeremy C. Reed
  2023-03-10  1:58               ` Rob Pike
@ 2023-03-10  6:33               ` Jonathan Gray
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Gray @ 2023-03-10  6:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jeremy C. Reed; +Cc: tuhs

On Thu, Mar 09, 2023 at 11:51:05PM +0000, Jeremy C. Reed wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2023, Rob Pike wrote:
> 
> > Later that year we, mostly Bill, coupled it to troff, along with some
> > digitized fonts, and it went out on the Toronto tapes, with our names on it.
> > For many years I saw evidence in scientific papers of people using Bill's
> > digitization of the Bodoni fonts.
> 
> Do you recall the name of this software or project? I tried various 
> greps in a few of the Usenix archives but cannot tell what it is.
> Thanks

"This page appears twice in this issue.  The first copy is the usual
phototypesetter output.  The second copy is the product of the Toronto
typesetter simulator for the Versatec.

The spacing between characters in the Versatec simulation does not
appear correct due to the fact that the phototypesetter is mounted with
the Sovran font and therefore the Toronto software is taking those font
widths into account in calculating its spacing even though it is
printing using Roman fonts."

https://archive.org/details/login_november-1977/mode/2up

"Bill Reeves, who also wrote vcat, a Versatec typesetter-simulator which
runs as an output filter to troff.  Vcat (which was used to generate
this document) is available free as part of the University of Toronto
distribution #3."
https://archive.org/details/login_january-1980/page/n9/mode/2up

I can't find the original Toronto distribution.
Some documentation (no source) for a modified version with credits in:
tuhs/Applications/Spencer_Tapes/del.tar.gz delaware/usgs.v7
"USGS Menlo Park Unix"
U.S. Geological Survey, Menlo Park, California

delaware/usgs.v7/man/chap1/trot.1
trot - troff output rotating program
AUTHOR
Bill Reeves, University of Toronto
Martin Pensak, University of California, San Francisco

delaware/usgs.v7/man/chap1/vcat.1
vcat - interpreter of troff output for Versatec
AUTHORS
Bill Reeves, University of Toronto
Martin Pensak & Thomas Ferrin, University of California, San Francisco
William Joy, University of California, Berkeley

delaware/usgs.v7/man/chap5/tfonts.5
tfonts - troff versatec font usage
AUTHOR
Bill Reeves at University of Toronto.

CSRG SCCS admin/admin/contrib/contrib has:
Versatec printer/plotter support        University of Toronto

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-09 20:48           ` Rob Pike
                               ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2023-03-09 23:51             ` Jeremy C. Reed
@ 2023-03-10  7:50             ` Jonathan Gray
  2023-03-10 13:11               ` Clem Cole
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Gray @ 2023-03-10  7:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rob Pike; +Cc: tuhs

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 07:48:26AM +1100, Rob Pike wrote:
> 
> Years later, bless him, Henry Spencer said something on Usenet explaining
> why the "Berkeley typesetting software" was missing the names of those who
> created it. He was in the lab that weekend and saw it happen.
> 
> -rob

https://groups.google.com/g/net.unix-wizards/c/eZ1qIlRyhx0/m/UmE8cBRYbPEJ
Henry Spencer in net.unix-wizards Dec 17, 1983

"The proper credits for vcat are roughly as follows:

Bill Reeves most of vcat, and the font editor
Tom Duff the inner loop of vcat, in pdp11 assembler
Rob Pike the (unreleased) precursor to vcat (called vd)
Mike Tilson miscellaneous optimizations

The distributed source for vcat had Reeves, Pike, Tilson in the heading,
and Duff in the lone .s file. My thanks to Rob Pike for refreshing my
memory on this."

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Fifth Edition Manual Restoration
  2023-03-10  7:50             ` Jonathan Gray
@ 2023-03-10 13:11               ` Clem Cole
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2023-03-10 13:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jonathan Gray; +Cc: tuhs

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1459 bytes --]

I dug up the 1991 UCB source to vcat from UUNET archives I have and Rob's
note about the 1983 Regents copyright.
I'll keep digging - BTW there is no assembler in this version.

Finding a copy of the original 't' for Toronto directory from the 1977
Harvard USENIX tape would be helpful. I spoke with Henry Spencer yesterday,
like me - Henry has the '79 Toronto USENIX tape (which is what is the TUHS
archives). I'll try to track down Tom Ferrin, Tom Duff, Bill and Mike
later.
ᐧ
ᐧ
ᐧ

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 2:50 AM Jonathan Gray <jsg@jsg.id.au> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 07:48:26AM +1100, Rob Pike wrote:
> >
> > Years later, bless him, Henry Spencer said something on Usenet explaining
> > why the "Berkeley typesetting software" was missing the names of those
> who
> > created it. He was in the lab that weekend and saw it happen.
> >
> > -rob
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/net.unix-wizards/c/eZ1qIlRyhx0/m/UmE8cBRYbPEJ
> Henry Spencer in net.unix-wizards Dec 17, 1983
>
> "The proper credits for vcat are roughly as follows:
>
> Bill Reeves most of vcat, and the font editor
> Tom Duff the inner loop of vcat, in pdp11 assembler
> Rob Pike the (unreleased) precursor to vcat (called vd)
> Mike Tilson miscellaneous optimizations
>
> The distributed source for vcat had Reeves, Pike, Tilson in the heading,
> and Duff in the lone .s file. My thanks to Rob Pike for refreshing my
> memory on this."
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3172 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2023-03-10 13:12 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-03-08  7:26 [TUHS] Fifth Edition Manual Restoration segaloco via TUHS
2023-03-08 10:02 ` [TUHS] " Angelo Papenhoff
2023-03-08 16:02   ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-03-08 16:30     ` Angelo Papenhoff
2023-03-08 20:55       ` josh
2023-03-08 22:21         ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-03-08 23:09       ` David Arnold
2023-03-09  6:59         ` arnold
2023-03-09 14:24         ` Clem Cole
2023-03-09 20:48           ` Rob Pike
2023-03-09 21:04             ` Dave Horsfall
2023-03-09 22:32             ` Rich Salz
2023-03-09 23:51             ` Jeremy C. Reed
2023-03-10  1:58               ` Rob Pike
2023-03-10  6:33               ` Jonathan Gray
2023-03-10  7:50             ` Jonathan Gray
2023-03-10 13:11               ` Clem Cole

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).