From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67A2925F2E for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 22:15:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A09E436E0; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 06:15:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from osgiliath.yauz.de (osgiliath.yauz.de [178.63.8.198]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5710D436CD for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 06:15:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: by osgiliath.yauz.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id B7DC5800F29; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 22:15:03 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thangorodrim.ch; s=mail; t=1719173703; bh=aMSBdf5RlzhkYoub6g/951O4cyLq5NuydqRRdmHo2Bc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=rDMXNInK+40NtK0qiWm8z35wA2IA+pXl73KVTnMVjQ5z4FmF5w2RNGJsVwpCLhuzM pIkoObeksbWC3jcEosRHrADox4OL+ZEgi4AJOJrjZhk2PoPSNNbu7Vo+dKth6hAukg 5A8cj3Yt59oovVPqFhgXiVYIjqvKwA8Y7LY1iVJUphmgoHGEUNfTxoGHZ6qUbqZfNT 5Vl+pwVf2TwY/Tt3Mh63rhgDh8eZtUnoVOQyp/I1I6mZBQe2yuSaz26agNURMk7phq FU1rpPJAZv0QsZyiyh4D4SWgntN0SogB5WbZvXPEYyn0MkfD2s7FDfP6OG8h/0CVMJ oAKNCCnxFEn3Q== Received: from mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de (mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de [192.168.42.1]) by frodo.angband.thangorodrim.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CEF0380050; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 22:04:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de (Postfix, from userid 1069) id 3538B1C00AB; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 22:04:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 22:04:22 +0200 From: Alexander Schreiber To: Theodore Ts'o Message-ID: References: <73819d1a-395a-4b74-a20c-0123fbed56bd@technologists.com> <22508b22-db5f-491e-bc02-2d4ab4d33cd9@home.arpa> <87o77s77lj.fsf@gmail.com> <20240623190002.GB7185@mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20240623190002.GB7185@mit.edu> X-URL: http://www.thangorodrim.ch/ X-Public-Key-Fingerprint: AC78 B3A4 583B 3669 0D7A 154E CA70 DC98 C209 0A62 X-PGP-KeyId: C2090A62 X-message-flag: Please send plain text messages only. Thank you. X-Cthulhu: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn X-bible-quote: Proverbs 1:25-28 X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID-Hash: PMU6RRYPBFGT7ALT4CO2SQ74K3QJLGJ6 X-Message-ID-Hash: PMU6RRYPBFGT7ALT4CO2SQ74K3QJLGJ6 X-MailFrom: als@thangorodrim.ch X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Alexis , The Unix Heritage Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of =?utf-8?q?systemd_boasts_=2742=25_less_Unix_philosophy=27_=E2=80=A2?= The Register List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 03:00:02PM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote: > On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 11:47:52AM +1000, Alexis wrote: > > Dave Horsfall writes: > > > > > My server runs Sendmail, and I have no idea what "journalctl" is (it > > > sounds Penguin-ish, which I definitely don't run). > > > > It's systemd's program for accessing the binary logs it generates. So, yes, > > it's Penguin, in the sense that systemd is explicitly not supported on > > anything other than Linux. > > Systemd certainly isn't a pioneer in terms of binary log files. The > first such "innovation" that I can think of is Ultrix's (and later > OSF/1 and Tru64)'s uerf (Ultrix error report formatter). AIX also had > binary error logs that needed to be decoded using the errpt command. > And Solaris's audit logs are also stored in a binary format. AIX sort of gets a pass here on account of being on the weird side to begin with and bonus points for not using DB/2 for primary log storage ;-) > All of these "innovations" consider it a Feature that it becomes > easier to store and filter on structured data, instead of trying to > write complex regex's to pull out events that match some particular > query. Except you now have to do the additional step of extracting the data from the binary logs and _then_ apply the regex filter you were going to use in the first place, which makes the logs less accessible. All of my systemd running machines still get rsyslog plugged into it so it can deliver the logs to my central log host (which then dumps them into PostgreSQL) - and to enable a quick rummage in the local logs via less & grep. Kind regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison