From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6031228D89 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 10:24:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F46434B3; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 18:24:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mx1.dyne.org (mx1.dyne.org [65.109.67.92]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B53074334F for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 18:23:56 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=freaknet.org; s=mail; t=1720081434; bh=vjNczcrRzrEd+uqge6kd96BA+ZHWci138HJfwdJDcbU=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=q0CJWuhnI8Vb3nEmw/tZq9vRfYALU+Zb58yJoymuf9eiwriHy51rGvE2ErFAO/euH OAsBaywNGnSXxl/A3MFqHhMTjIMlcfVpsujMSHBS2iyoNHwrk/suN/juzrak8WBm8T LrYlZg/ZVkmcoqH7s5w85biEC0qA68KdW2R6wm/4= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (Authenticated sender: katolaz@freaknet.org) with ESMTPSA id 16BC576662E Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2024 08:23:50 +0000 From: Vincenzo Nicosia To: TUHS Message-ID: References: <93529CA0-7097-443C-999B-384BE6BD5683@canb.auug.org.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Message-ID-Hash: WBP7W2YJE4HRGAG3SDQPGHVBE4ULZUFI X-Message-ID-Hash: WBP7W2YJE4HRGAG3SDQPGHVBE4ULZUFI X-MailFrom: katolaz@freaknet.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 05:29:26PM -0600, Marc Rochkind wrote: > On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 9:27???AM Vincenzo Nicosia > wrote: > > > ... > > > > The programmers considered as "fungible workforce" by mainstream > > software engineering and project management theories are *paid* to to > > their programming job, and they mostly have to carry that job over > > working on prescribed objectives and timelines which have been decided > > by somebody else, managers who know nothing at all about software > > development. Personal interest in the project, passion, motivation, > > curiosity, creative power, sense of beauty, the joy of belonging to a > > community of likeminded people, are never part of the equation, at any > > point. > > > > [cut] > > I have never met a programmer or group of programmers who were always > right. Most often, they are ignorant of financing, regulatory constraints, > product schedules, commitments, staffing issues, and everything else that > isn't coding. (There are exceptions, but they are uncommon.) Management, by > definition, is the art and science of using resources to reach an > objective. Programmers generally are concerned only with themselves as a > resource and with their own personal programming objective. It is unusual > to find a programmer who understands management. > I agree my view is cynical. Maybe that's because I cannot find anything romantic or poetic in "financing, regulatory constraints, product schedules, commitments, staffing issues, and everything else that isn't coding". Maybe because I have learned on experience that those things are just there to ensure that the clients pay their invoices, while they rarely contribute to anything durable, well-engineered, great, or beautiful. Anything that can be considered a truly good case study of software development. But I am sure I am just too cynical here :) HND Enzo --