* [TUHS] Fwd: Trove of CSTR's
@ 2024-09-28 23:38 Warren Toomey via TUHS
2024-09-29 1:30 ` [TUHS] " Rob Pike
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Warren Toomey via TUHS @ 2024-09-28 23:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: tuhs
All, I got this e-mail and thought many of you would appreciate the link.
Cheers, Warren
----- Forwarded message from Poul-Henning Kamp -----
I stumbled over this:
https://www.telecomarchive.com/lettermemo.html
is the TUHS crew aware of that resource ?
----- End forwarded message -----
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: Fwd: Trove of CSTR's
2024-09-28 23:38 [TUHS] Fwd: Trove of CSTR's Warren Toomey via TUHS
@ 2024-09-29 1:30 ` Rob Pike
2024-09-29 2:18 ` Larry McVoy
2024-09-29 2:32 ` Ed Bradford
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2024-09-29 1:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Warren Toomey; +Cc: tuhs
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I didn't realize Kernighan and Lin was CSTR number 1. Cool. That's an
important paper.
-rob
On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 9:38 AM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>
wrote:
> All, I got this e-mail and thought many of you would appreciate the link.
>
> Cheers, Warren
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Poul-Henning Kamp -----
>
> I stumbled over this:
>
> https://www.telecomarchive.com/lettermemo.html
>
> is the TUHS crew aware of that resource ?
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: Fwd: Trove of CSTR's
2024-09-29 1:30 ` [TUHS] " Rob Pike
@ 2024-09-29 2:18 ` Larry McVoy
2024-09-29 2:20 ` Larry McVoy
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Larry McVoy @ 2024-09-29 2:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rob Pike; +Cc: Warren Toomey, tuhs
It might amuse you, or maybe you don't care, but when I was a grad student
I gave my Pascal students the traveling saleman problem. I told them how
hard it was (NP-hard) and said if you can find a solution that works in
polynomial time, I'll dedicate my life to you to get you a Nobel Prize.
I was too green to know about Turing awards.
I had a math guy in the class who called me up, land lines, at 3am on a
Sunday morning (Saturday night so he was working on this instead of going
out to have fun). Screamed at me that he had it. He didn't.
Still fun to get the kids thinking. Seems like Kernighan and Lin thought
harder.
On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 11:30:42AM +1000, Rob Pike wrote:
> I didn't realize Kernighan and Lin was CSTR number 1. Cool. That's an
> important paper.
>
> -rob
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 9:38???AM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>
> wrote:
>
> > All, I got this e-mail and thought many of you would appreciate the link.
> >
> > Cheers, Warren
> >
> > ----- Forwarded message from Poul-Henning Kamp -----
> >
> > I stumbled over this:
> >
> > https://www.telecomarchive.com/lettermemo.html
> >
> > is the TUHS crew aware of that resource ?
> >
> > ----- End forwarded message -----
> >
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: Fwd: Trove of CSTR's
2024-09-29 2:18 ` Larry McVoy
@ 2024-09-29 2:20 ` Larry McVoy
2024-09-29 2:25 ` G. Branden Robinson
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Larry McVoy @ 2024-09-29 2:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rob Pike; +Cc: Warren Toomey, tuhs
That CSTR number 1 is nicely formatted, is that troff?
On Sat, Sep 28, 2024 at 07:18:13PM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> It might amuse you, or maybe you don't care, but when I was a grad student
> I gave my Pascal students the traveling saleman problem. I told them how
> hard it was (NP-hard) and said if you can find a solution that works in
> polynomial time, I'll dedicate my life to you to get you a Nobel Prize.
> I was too green to know about Turing awards.
>
> I had a math guy in the class who called me up, land lines, at 3am on a
> Sunday morning (Saturday night so he was working on this instead of going
> out to have fun). Screamed at me that he had it. He didn't.
>
> Still fun to get the kids thinking. Seems like Kernighan and Lin thought
> harder.
>
> On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 11:30:42AM +1000, Rob Pike wrote:
> > I didn't realize Kernighan and Lin was CSTR number 1. Cool. That's an
> > important paper.
> >
> > -rob
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 9:38???AM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > All, I got this e-mail and thought many of you would appreciate the link.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Warren
> > >
> > > ----- Forwarded message from Poul-Henning Kamp -----
> > >
> > > I stumbled over this:
> > >
> > > https://www.telecomarchive.com/lettermemo.html
> > >
> > > is the TUHS crew aware of that resource ?
> > >
> > > ----- End forwarded message -----
> > >
>
> --
> ---
> Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: Fwd: Trove of CSTR's
2024-09-29 2:20 ` Larry McVoy
@ 2024-09-29 2:25 ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-09-29 4:37 ` Gregg Levine
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: G. Branden Robinson @ 2024-09-29 2:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: tuhs
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At 2024-09-28T19:20:07-0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> That CSTR number 1 is nicely formatted, is that troff?
troff didn't exist yet in 1971.
That is proper typesetting, though. I don't know enough to say if it's
phototypeset or hot lead (can the naked eye reliably tell, if both
techniques are of high quality?). We could take the question to the
real typographers on the groff list.
roff(7):
Third Edition Unix also brought the pipe(2) system call, the
explosive growth of a componentized system based around it, and a
“filter model” that remains perceptible today. Equally
importantly, the Bell Labs site in Murray Hill acquired a Graphic
Systems C/A/T phototypesetter, and with it came the necessity of
expanding the capabilities of a roff system to cope with a variety
of proportionally spaced typefaces at multiple sizes. Ossanna
wrote a parallel implementation of nroff for the C/A/T, dubbing it
troff (for “typesetter roff”). Unfortunately, surviving
documentation does not illustrate what requests were implemented at
this time for C/A/T support; the troff(1) man page in Fourth
Edition Unix (November 1973) does not feature a request list,
unlike nroff(1). Apart from typesetter‐driven features, Unix
Version 4 roffs added string definitions (.ds); made the escape
character configurable (.ec); and enabled the user to write
diagnostics to the standard error stream (.tm). Around 1974,
empowered with multiple type sizes, italics, and a symbol font
specially commissioned by Bell Labs from Graphic Systems, Kernighan
and Lorinda Cherry implemented eqn for typesetting mathematics. In
the same year, for Fifth Edition Unix, Ossanna combined and
reimplemented the two roffs in C, using that language’s
preprocessor to generate both from a single source tree.
Regards,
Branden
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: Fwd: Trove of CSTR's
2024-09-28 23:38 [TUHS] Fwd: Trove of CSTR's Warren Toomey via TUHS
2024-09-29 1:30 ` [TUHS] " Rob Pike
@ 2024-09-29 2:32 ` Ed Bradford
2024-09-29 2:36 ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-10-01 19:46 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
3 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Ed Bradford @ 2024-09-29 2:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Warren Toomey; +Cc: tuhs
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"Look what they've done to my song, ma"
Nokia Bell Labs just doesn't sound right to me and when I visit
the site, well, "Look what they've ....".
I wonder what happened to the amazing library at Murray Hill.
NOkia Bell Labs
https://www.bell-labs.com/about/locations/murray-hill-new-jersey-us/
Thank you for some of the CSTR memories. Do you think the entire
collection is available somewhere or if NBL still has them? Could
we prevail on NBL to release them all to the public?
Ed Bradford (BTL 1976-1983)
On Sat, Sep 28, 2024 at 6:47 PM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>
wrote:
> All, I got this e-mail and thought many of you would appreciate the link.
>
> Cheers, Warren
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Poul-Henning Kamp -----
>
> I stumbled over this:
>
> https://www.telecomarchive.com/lettermemo.html
>
> is the TUHS crew aware of that resource ?
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
--
Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
Cicero
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: Fwd: Trove of CSTR's
2024-09-28 23:38 [TUHS] Fwd: Trove of CSTR's Warren Toomey via TUHS
2024-09-29 1:30 ` [TUHS] " Rob Pike
2024-09-29 2:32 ` Ed Bradford
@ 2024-09-29 2:36 ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-10-01 19:46 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
3 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: G. Branden Robinson @ 2024-09-29 2:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: tuhs
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At 2024-09-29T09:38:50+1000, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> All, I got this e-mail and thought many of you would appreciate the link.
Oh, man! CSTR #44! "Computer typesetting of technical journals on
UNIX" Complete with measurements of costs per page, a subject we'd
batted around on the groff list in the past couple of years. $30 a
page--in the 1970s. :-O
Great stuff. Thanks!
Regards,
Branden
"Why, as a pup, l myself fetched thirty thousand dollars on the black
market. And that was in 1954 dollars." -- Leonard Smalls
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: Fwd: Trove of CSTR's
2024-09-29 2:25 ` G. Branden Robinson
@ 2024-09-29 4:37 ` Gregg Levine
0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Gregg Levine @ 2024-09-29 4:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: tuhs
Hello!
I did know someone, twice, My dad and grandfather. For many years the
family business was typesetting. First they ran a business based on
hotmetal typography. They used the same methods that the Linotype
presented. Eventually Dad switched to photo. He ran two shops, based
on the L202 machine from the same company as the original one. One
year he tells me about having an interesting job, doing the annual
report for AT&T, because the one that the company had there, couldn't
properly grok the ideas behind it, it wasn't until I got into
programming that I figured it out, because the C book was, ah, done
locally and that way.
Ironically the font the company uses for its logo and much of its work
was cut for them, it was called AT&T Gothic.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com
"This signature was present when the impossible happened 23 years ago, twice."
On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 12:22 AM G. Branden Robinson
<g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> At 2024-09-28T19:20:07-0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > That CSTR number 1 is nicely formatted, is that troff?
>
> troff didn't exist yet in 1971.
>
> That is proper typesetting, though. I don't know enough to say if it's
> phototypeset or hot lead (can the naked eye reliably tell, if both
> techniques are of high quality?). We could take the question to the
> real typographers on the groff list.
>
> roff(7):
> Third Edition Unix also brought the pipe(2) system call, the
> explosive growth of a componentized system based around it, and a
> “filter model” that remains perceptible today. Equally
> importantly, the Bell Labs site in Murray Hill acquired a Graphic
> Systems C/A/T phototypesetter, and with it came the necessity of
> expanding the capabilities of a roff system to cope with a variety
> of proportionally spaced typefaces at multiple sizes. Ossanna
> wrote a parallel implementation of nroff for the C/A/T, dubbing it
> troff (for “typesetter roff”). Unfortunately, surviving
> documentation does not illustrate what requests were implemented at
> this time for C/A/T support; the troff(1) man page in Fourth
> Edition Unix (November 1973) does not feature a request list,
> unlike nroff(1). Apart from typesetter‐driven features, Unix
> Version 4 roffs added string definitions (.ds); made the escape
> character configurable (.ec); and enabled the user to write
> diagnostics to the standard error stream (.tm). Around 1974,
> empowered with multiple type sizes, italics, and a symbol font
> specially commissioned by Bell Labs from Graphic Systems, Kernighan
> and Lorinda Cherry implemented eqn for typesetting mathematics. In
> the same year, for Fifth Edition Unix, Ossanna combined and
> reimplemented the two roffs in C, using that language’s
> preprocessor to generate both from a single source tree.
>
> Regards,
> Branden
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Re: Fwd: Trove of CSTR's
2024-09-28 23:38 [TUHS] Fwd: Trove of CSTR's Warren Toomey via TUHS
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2024-09-29 2:36 ` G. Branden Robinson
@ 2024-10-01 19:46 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
3 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Chet Ramey via TUHS @ 2024-10-01 19:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: tuhs
On 9/28/24 7:38 PM, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> ----- Forwarded message from Poul-Henning Kamp -----
>
> I stumbled over this:
>
> https://www.telecomarchive.com/lettermemo.html
>
> is the TUHS crew aware of that resource ?
This is an incredible resource as well:
https://www.telecomarchive.com/bstj.html
From 1922 to 1996.
--
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU chet@case.edu http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
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2024-09-28 23:38 [TUHS] Fwd: Trove of CSTR's Warren Toomey via TUHS
2024-09-29 1:30 ` [TUHS] " Rob Pike
2024-09-29 2:18 ` Larry McVoy
2024-09-29 2:20 ` Larry McVoy
2024-09-29 2:25 ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-09-29 4:37 ` Gregg Levine
2024-09-29 2:32 ` Ed Bradford
2024-09-29 2:36 ` G. Branden Robinson
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