From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, LOTS_OF_MONEY,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 532E02B773 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 02:31:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2544C43B9B; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 11:31:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: from lax.lemis.com (www.lemis.com [45.32.70.18]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 917F343B98 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 11:31:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: from eureka.lemis.com (121-200-11-253.79c80b.mel.nbn.aussiebb.net [121.200.11.253]) by lax.lemis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F10280DD; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 01:31:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hydra.lemis.com (unknown [192.109.197.129]) by eureka.lemis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BBD92635CD; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 12:31:31 +1100 (AEDT) Received: from hydra.lemis.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hydra.lemis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 220F213AC9; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 12:31:31 +1100 (AEDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by hydra.lemis.com (8.18.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 4A51VVZt039620; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 12:31:31 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 12:31:31 +1100 From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" To: Marc Rochkind Message-ID: References: <52a0ed21-2703-464d-b2e2-72fb44325d47@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="PcxchvkJIkaOJoiK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: LEMIS, 29 Stones Road, Dereel, VIC, Australia Phone: +61-3-5309-0418 Mobile: +61-490-494-038. 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WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Message-ID-Hash: NLZCCOOEVEN4XGY4IQP2UJ6BNE7IZQGC X-Message-ID-Hash: NLZCCOOEVEN4XGY4IQP2UJ6BNE7IZQGC X-MailFrom: grog@lemis.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] IBM's involvement (was: SCO's "evidence" (was: RIP Darl McBride former CEO of SCO)) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --PcxchvkJIkaOJoiK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Monday, 4 November 2024 at 17:05:45 -0700, Marc Rochkind wrote: > By evidence, I mean evidence that was part of the legal case(s). Material > presented as a part of a marketing, sales, or public relations effort is > not evidence in this sense. OK, that makes sense. Did it contradict the "evidence" that we mortals saw? That wouldn't have made sense. > The way the copyright case ended doesn't mean that Linux development > didn't violate copyrights. I'm pretty sure that it did, based on > conversations with a friend of mine who was a technical expert on > that part of the case. Yes, I established that in the article that I wrote. The real question is how serious the violation was. In the case (malloc()) it was put in the Linux tree by somebody at SGI, and its use as "evidence" appeared to show that System V was still using a very old, inefficient memory allocation scheme. More egg on SCO's face than anything. > One might ask, how could Torvalds and all those Linux developers > violate System V copyrights since they had never seen System V code? > The answer is that corporations such as IBM also contributed to > Linux, and those corporations did have such access. I worked for IBM's Linux Technology Centre at the time. Everything was very encapsulated. I had the task of writing a JFS 1 implementation for Linux. We already had JFS 2, but JFS 1 was a very different beast. It was written by IBM, so you'd think that I would have had access to the sources. No such luck. All I got was the header files. This was before the SCO debacle, so it wasn't a consequence of that. I greatly doubt that any System V code came into Linux via IBM. > I just a few minutes ago glanced at the Wikipedia article "SCO=E2=80=93Li= nux > disputes" and it's not bad. It does pretty much explain the breach of > contract case. There is a section titled "IBM code in Linux" that lists > some technologies (e.g., JFS, RCU), and that's the area that I > worked on. The JFS would have been JFS 2, of course--see above. I can't comment further. My understanding had been that RCU originated in Linux (Paul McKenney). Following up, though, there's a patent (https://patents.google.com/patent/US5442758) to this effect that puts him in second place behind John Slingwine, and it started off at Sequent. I discussed the matter with Paul at the time, and he dismissed the use of System V code out of hand. Knowing Paul, I believe him. What level of code similarity did you find there? > I wrote a program that could in effect do a "diff" on entire > operating systems, hundreds of thousands of lines of code. It was > amazing to see the results. Did it establish the direction of the transfer? The other "evidence" that was published showed SCO claiming that the Berkeley Packet Filter was part of System V (which I suppose it was), but of course it went =66rom BSD to System V, and presumably SCO had removed the Berkeley license header. And in the RCU case, I could imagine that some of the RCU code found its way from Sequent to System V. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php --PcxchvkJIkaOJoiK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQSaG4ICvM64RvkvCawi5vKQUHpCIwUCZyl1cgAKCRAi5vKQUHpC I91nAKCynlz90BbieFwOnodHvMs7CE7tPACfVOU5DPBP9W9J7HD9SZ7PLoMHIO0= =gscb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PcxchvkJIkaOJoiK--