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From: Aron Insinga <aki@insinga.com>
To: Computer Old Farts Followers <coff@tuhs.org>
Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org
Subject: [TUHS] Re: mental architecture models, Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix?
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2024 21:04:12 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <a231a9ad-b944-476c-b692-f092da2e76a2@insinga.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CABH=_VQABpXciOhd=OYGjGWeQAnBo3hMFeKm+bEzK9J1_bzfig@mail.gmail.com>

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Re: Floating point is unnecessary for operating systems: Yes, that's a 
big relief for early, small computers without hardware floating point!  
But floating point is important for runtime libraries which need to 
implement math functions or reading & writing floating point numbers.  
IMHO that's work for a system implementation language too, YMMV.

Re: BLISS:
I found it sad, but the newest versions of the BLISS compilers do not 
support using it as an expression language.  The section bridging pp 
978-979 (as published) of Brender's history is:

    "The expression language characteristic was often highly touted in
    the early years of BLISS. While there is a certain conceptual
    elegance that results, in practice this characteristic is not
    exploited much.
       The most common applications use the if-then-else expression, for
    example, in something like the maximum calculation illustrated in
    Figure 5. Very occasionally there is some analogous use of a case
    expression. Examples using loops (taking advantage of the value of
    leave), however, tend not to work well on human factors grounds: the
    value computed tends to be visually lost in the surrounding control
    constructs and too far removed from where it will be used; an
    explicit assignment to a temporary variable often seems to work better.
       On balance, the expression characteristic of BLISS was not
    terribly important."

Another thing that I always liked (but is still there) is the ease of 
accessing bit fields with V<FOO_OFFSET, FOO_SIZE> which was descended 
from BLISS-10's use of the PDP-10 byte pointers.  [Add a dot before V to 
get an rvalue.]  (Well, there was this logic simulator which really 
packed data into bit fields of blocks representing gates, events, etc....)

Yes, there is now a BLISS-64 compiler and a MACRO-64 compiler which 
generate x86_64 code.

- Aron

Ref: https://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/cs257/archive/ronald-brender/bliss.pdf


On 7/8/24 18:14, Paul Winalski wrote:
> ...
> BLISS is also a true, full-blown expression language. Statement 
> constructs such as if/then/else have a value and can be used in 
> expressions.  In C terminology, everything in BLISS is a lvalue.  A 
> semicolon terminates an expression and throws its value away.
> ...
> DEC used four dialects of BLISS as their primary software development 
> language:  BLISS-16, BLISS-32, BLISS-36, and BLISS-64 the numbers 
> indicating the BLISS word size in bits.  BLISS-16 targeted the PDP-11 
> and BLISS-36 the PDP-10.  DEC did implementations of BLISS-32 for VAX, 
> MIPS, and x86.  BLISS-64 was targeted to both Alpha and Itanium. VSI 
> may have a version of BLISS-64 that generates x86-64 code.
>
> -Paul W.

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  reply	other threads:[~2024-07-09  1:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 95+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-07-03  4:51 [TUHS] " sjenkin
2024-07-03  5:02 ` [TUHS] " Al Kossow
2024-07-03  6:46   ` arnold
2024-07-03 14:04   ` Clem Cole
2024-07-03 15:22     ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-07-03 15:36       ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-03 14:59   ` Marc Rochkind
2024-07-03 23:35     ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-07-04 13:00       ` Marc Donner
2024-07-03  9:04 ` A. P. Garcia
2024-07-03 15:17 ` Vincenzo Nicosia
2024-07-03 15:35   ` Marc Donner
2024-07-03 17:39     ` Jon Forrest
2024-07-03 17:49       ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-07-03 18:16         ` Erik E. Fair
2024-07-03 19:58         ` Rich Salz
2024-07-03 23:15     ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-03 23:23       ` Marc Donner
2024-07-03 23:26       ` Rik Farrow
2024-07-04 23:26         ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-03 15:37   ` Al Kossow
2024-07-03 16:01     ` Al Kossow
2024-07-03 16:05       ` Warner Losh
2024-07-03 23:29   ` Marc Rochkind
2024-07-03 23:50     ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-07-04  8:23     ` Vincenzo Nicosia
2024-07-04 20:34       ` Nevin Liber
2024-07-04 20:44         ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-07-04 21:41           ` sjenkin
     [not found]             ` <7AC009E5-C985-44AD-A55E-E0BFC05CDD31@serissa.com>
2024-07-05  9:41               ` Steve Jenkin
2024-07-05  9:47               ` Steve Jenkin
2024-07-05  0:03         ` Stuff Received
2024-07-05  0:12           ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-05  2:24             ` Adam Thornton
2024-07-05  2:42               ` Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-07-05  7:13                 ` arnold
2024-07-05  7:42                   ` Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-07-05  8:20                     ` arnold
2024-07-05  8:52                       ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-07-05  7:36               ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-05 10:18                 ` Peter Yardley
2024-07-05 21:38                   ` [TUHS] Re: mental architecture models, " John Levine
2024-07-05 21:49                     ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-05 22:08                       ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)
2024-07-05 22:24                         ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-05 23:17                       ` John Levine
2024-07-06 12:52                         ` sjenkin
2024-07-06 14:02                           ` John R Levine
2024-07-06 15:58                           ` Clem Cole
2024-07-06 20:56                             ` John R Levine
2024-07-06 21:32                               ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)
2024-07-06 23:46                                 ` Peter Yardley
2024-07-07 17:43                                   ` James Frew
2024-07-07  1:39                                 ` John Levine
2024-07-07  3:26                                   ` [TUHS] Re: PL.8 [was " Charles H Sauer (he/him)
2024-07-08 21:39                                 ` [TUHS] " Aron Insinga
2024-07-08 22:14                                   ` Paul Winalski
2024-07-09  1:04                                     ` Aron Insinga [this message]
2024-07-08 22:17                                   ` Rik Farrow
2024-07-09  0:08                                     ` Adam Thornton
2024-07-09  2:40                                       ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-09  2:43                                         ` Warner Losh
2024-07-09  4:23                                         ` Adam Thornton
2024-07-09  5:06                                         ` Aron Insinga
2024-07-07  5:33                         ` arnold
2024-07-05 22:10                     ` Dan Cross
2024-07-07 22:00                   ` [TUHS] " Dave Horsfall
2024-07-07 23:28                     ` Brad Spencer
2024-07-08  6:17                       ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-08  6:27                       ` Lars Brinkhoff
2024-07-08  6:51                         ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-08  9:36                           ` David Arnold
2024-07-08  6:59                       ` arnold
2024-07-08 13:22                         ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-08 15:37                           ` Al Kossow
2024-07-08 17:22                             ` Tom Lyon
2024-07-08 17:04                           ` Clem Cole
2024-07-08 15:28                         ` Brad Spencer
2024-07-08 15:33                           ` Al Kossow
2024-07-09 22:54                         ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-10 13:18                           ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-07-10 14:29                             ` John Levine
2024-07-08  0:21                     ` John Levine
2024-07-08  0:35                       ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-08 12:29                     ` Peter Yardley
2024-07-05 16:40                 ` Jon Steinhart
2024-07-06 13:20                   ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-05  0:08       ` Marc Rochkind
2024-07-04  1:53 ` John Levine
2024-07-04  2:59   ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-07-04  6:53     ` Rob Pike
2024-07-04 15:07       ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-07 13:57 [TUHS] Re: mental architecture models, " Noel Chiappa
2024-07-07 16:43 ` John Levine
2024-07-10  2:20 Douglas McIlroy

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