From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 00a46ba4 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 00:30:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5F95D94807; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 10:30:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 692F69479A; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 10:30:19 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=yaccman.com header.i=@yaccman.com header.b="P7xM0ua4"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id AEE439479A; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 10:30:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: from baboon.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (baboon.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.8]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15D7994794 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 10:30:15 +1000 (AEST) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|scj@yaccman.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F225E1503; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 00:20:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a14.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-92-36.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.92.36]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id CCF455E10C3; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 00:20:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|scj@yaccman.com Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a14.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.17.5); Tue, 17 Sep 2019 00:20:23 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Junk X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|scj@yaccman.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Relation-Celery: 5ddec45e652e5211_1568679620236_1221652467 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1568679620236:1893276206 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1568679620236 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a14.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a14.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB1283C78; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 17:20:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=yaccman.com; h=message-id :from:to:in-reply-to:subject:date:content-type:mime-version; s= yaccman.com; bh=7ISq7x1UskK7oV9U8GWQjKgMqYA=; b=P7xM0ua4Q+vcKQXz Q04sFADvTSQKEl7MQsVNSpyKJoVV9mIfqNvvpaGeoG82dQrxdjsZswROZf8pQGg2 Hz+oHjbzVpkdS8dChLD3JaG840Cj7v+V9dTprGnUFKQudaYTUTlnuMXxPOiJCNM5 1JA0EIZB/hiDBPjsieXRp6nK3Sc= Received: from localhost (ip-66-33-200-4.dreamhost.com [66.33.200.4]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: scj@yaccman.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a14.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F2DDA83C87; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 17:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a14 From: "Steve Johnson" To: "Doug McIlroy" , tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailer: Atmail 7.8.0.2 X-Originating-IP: 10.35.42.221 in-reply-to: <201909152207.x8FM7BiA017274@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 17:20:12 -0700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_53f5d77a75974c7fca87e19c48df6c78" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrudeggdefgecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefkhffvofhijgfuffgtggesrgdtreerredtjeenucfhrhhomhepfdfuthgvvhgvucflohhhnhhsohhnfdcuoehstghjseihrggttghmrghnrdgtohhmqeenucfkphepieeirdeffedrvddttddrgedpuddtrdefhedrgedvrddvvddunecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehlohgtrghlhhhoshhtpdhinhgvthepieeirdeffedrvddttddrgedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthhepfdfuthgvvhgvucflohhhnhhsohhnfdcuoehstghjseihrggttghmrghnrdgtohhmqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehstghjseihrggttghmrghnrdgtohhmpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehtuhhhshesthhuhhhsrdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd Subject: Re: [TUHS] earliest Unix roff X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --=_53f5d77a75974c7fca87e19c48df6c78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0ADennis had a model 37 on his sunporch for years.=C2=A0 The innards we= re=0Anearly all mechanical -- cams and levers, etc.=C2=A0 And as the yea= rs went=0Aby, wear and tear made the thing shake when it was being used.= =C2=A0=C2=A0=0AFrom time to time, it would shake so much that a space wo= uld be added=0Ainto whatever you were typing.=0A=0AI think Dennis finall= y retired it after he typed the command "rm=0A*.o"=C2=A0 (a common comma= nd in those days of small discs), and got the=0Arespnse ".o not found"= =0A=0AThe model37 used fan-fold paper, that we got by the box.=C2=A0 It= was an=0Aart to arrange the paper flow so that the output didn't pile u= p inside=0Athe box of blank paper,=0Abut rather ended up in a pile on th= e floor.=0A=0AIn this era, Unix would, from time to time, crash unexpect= edly,=0Acausing you to lose all the edits you hadn't written out yet.=C2= =A0 The=0Adrill in that case was to=0Agather up the paper with all your= typing on it, and, with a=0Ahighlighter, highlight the stuff you needed= to retype when the system=0Acame up.=0A=0AOne day I had been furiously= editing a long program file for about an=0Ahour and a half when I was c= alled away to lunch, and, being hungry,=0Adidn't save=0Amy file.=C2=A0 W= hen I got back to the terminal an hour later, I discovered=0Atwo things= -- the system had crashed, and our cat had decided that the=0Apile of p= aper=0Aon the floor made a great litter box.=C2=A0 After a few choice wo= rds, I=0Asighed and picked up my highliter...=0A=0ASteve=0A=0A----- Orig= inal Message -----=0AFrom: "Doug McIlroy" =0ATo:<= tuhs@tuhs.org>=0ACc:=0ASent:Sun, 15 Sep 2019 18:07:11 -0400=0ASubject:Re= : [TUHS] earliest Unix roff=0A=0A > Excellent - thanks for the pointer.= This shows nroff before troff.=0A > FWIW: I guess I was miss informed,= but I had been under the=0Aimpression=0A > that was the other way aroun= d. i.e. nroff was done to be compliant=0Awith=0A > the new troff, replac= ing roff, although the suggestion here is that=0Ahe=0A > wrote it add ma= cros to roff. I'll note that either way, the dates=0Aare all=0A > possib= le of course because the U/L case ASR 37 was introduced 1968=0Aso by=0A= > the early 1970's they would have been around the labs.=0A=0A nroff wa= s in v2; troff appeared in v4, which incidentally was=0A typeset in trof= f.=0A=0A Because of Joe Ossanna's role in designing the model 37, we=0A= had 37's in the Labs and even in our homes right from the=0A start of p= roduction. But when they went obsolete, they were=0A a chore to get rid= of. As Labs property, they had to be=0A returned; and picking them up w= as nobody's priority.=0A Andy Hall had one on his back porch for a year.= =0A=0A Doug=0A=0A --=_53f5d77a75974c7fca87e19c48df6c78 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dennis had a model 37 on his sunporch for years.=C2=A0 The= innards were nearly all mechanical -- cams and levers, etc.=C2=A0 And a= s the years went by, wear and tear made the thing shake when it was bein= g used.=C2=A0=C2=A0 From time to time, it would shake so much that a spa= ce would be added into whatever you were typing.

I think Dennis finally retired it after he typed the command "rm *.o"= =C2=A0 (a common command in those days of small discs), and got the resp= nse ".o not found"

The model37 used fan-fold pa= per, that we got by the box.=C2=A0 It was an art to arrange the paper fl= ow so that the output didn't pile up inside the box of blank paper,
but rather ended up in a pile on the floor.

In this era, Unix would, from time to time, crash unexpectedly, causi= ng you to lose all the edits you hadn't written out yet.=C2=A0 The drill= in that case was to
gather up the paper with all your typing= on it, and, with a highlighter, highlight the stuff you needed to retyp= e when the system came up.

One day I had been f= uriously editing a long program file for about an hour and a half when I= was called away to lunch, and, being hungry, didn't save
my f= ile.=C2=A0 When I got back to the terminal an hour later, I discovered t= wo things -- the system had crashed, and our cat had decided that the pi= le of paper
on the floor made a great litter box.=C2=A0 After= a few choice words, I sighed and picked up my highliter...
Steve


----- Original Message -----
From:
"Doug McIlroy" <= ;doug@cs.dartmouth.edu>

To:
<tuhs@tuhs.org&g= t;
Cc:

Sent:
Sun, 15 Sep 2019 18:07:11 -0400
Subject:Re: [TUHS] earliest Unix roff


=0A> Excellent - thanks= for the pointer. This shows nroff before troff.
=0A> FWIW: I g= uess I was miss informed, but I had been under the impression
=0A>= that was the other way around. i.e. nroff was done to be compliant wit= h
=0A> the new troff, replacing roff, although the suggestion here= is that he
=0A> wrote it add macros to roff. I'll note that eith= er way, the dates are all
=0A> possible of course because the U/L= case ASR 37 was introduced 1968 so by
=0A> the early 1970's they= would have been around the labs.

=0Anroff was in v2; troff appea= red in v4, which incidentally was
=0Atypeset in troff.

=0ABeca= use of Joe Ossanna's role in designing the model 37, we
=0Ahad 37's i= n the Labs and even in our homes right from the
=0Astart of productio= n. But when they went obsolete, they were
=0Aa chore to get rid of. A= s Labs property, they had to be
=0Areturned; and picking them up was= nobody's priority.
=0AAndy Hall had one on his back porch for a year= .

=0ADoug

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