The Unix Heritage Society mailing list
 help / color / Atom feed
From: "Steve Johnson" <scj@yaccman.com>
To: "Larry McVoy" <lm@mcvoy.com>, "Richard Salz" <rich.salz@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] PWB vs Unix/TS
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 14:05:34 -0700
Message-ID: <a970b6f0c9f2083f35ebff8a21fd1b1019cbc3ac@webmail.yaccman.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190911185418.GA2046@mcvoy.com>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1664 bytes --]


I tried very hard to get the front end of pcc released to open source
(we didn't call it then) because after K&R was printed, everyone and
their cat started writing C compilers based on the appendix.  I had
strong management support for this move, but the lawyers were still in
their "lets study this for 10 years and then it will be clear what we
should have done" mode.  So we ended up with far pointers and ten
years of standards committee agony.  It's so obvious to me now, as
then, that such specs should be executable (although not necessarily
product-quality in speed or things like error messages).  But it's
also obvious that the desire to compete by adding glitter and icing
runs strong nontheless.

Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McVoy" <lm@mcvoy.com>
To:"Richard Salz" <rich.salz@gmail.com>
Cc:"The Eunuchs Hysterical Society" <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Sent:Wed, 11 Sep 2019 11:54:18 -0700
Subject:Re: [TUHS] PWB vs Unix/TS

 On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 02:18:08PM -0400, Richard Salz wrote:
 > >
 > > It would have been
 > > much better if Sun had licensed their source base to AT&T and
then
 > > AT&T could have leveraged the industry standard.
 > 
 > 
 > Interesting to speculate if that would have sped up the creation of
OSF or
 > delayed/prevented it. I think the former.

 You're probably right but it wouldn't have mattered. SunOS was very
popular
 and had a good VM system with a working mmap. Once it became official
 AT&T source everyone would have moved to it over time.

 Sort of obvious in retrospect. Nobody, that I know of, considered it
at
 the time. I proposed open sourcing it.



[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2431 bytes --]

<html><body style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><div>I tried very hard to get the front end of pcc released to open source (we didn't call it then) because after K&amp;R was printed, everyone and their cat started writing C compilers based on the appendix.  I had strong management support for this move, but the lawyers were still in their "lets study this for 10 years and then it will be clear what we should have done" mode.  So we ended up with far pointers and ten years of standards committee agony.  It's so obvious to me now, as then, that such specs should be executable (although not necessarily product-quality in speed or things like error messages).  But it's also obvious that the desire to compete by adding glitter and icing runs strong nontheless.</div><div><br></div><div>Steve<br></div><br><br><blockquote class="atmailquote"><br>----- Original Message -----<br><div id="origionalMessageFromField" style="width:100%;display:inline;background:rgb(228,228,228);"><div style="display:inline;font-weight:bold;">From:</div> "Larry McVoy" &lt;lm@mcvoy.com&gt;</div><br><div id="origionalMessageToField" style="display:inline;font-weight:bold;">To:</div>"Richard Salz" &lt;rich.salz@gmail.com&gt;<br><div id="origionalMessageSentField" style="display:inline;font-weight:bold;">Cc:</div>"The Eunuchs Hysterical Society" &lt;tuhs@tuhs.org&gt;<br><div style="display:inline;font-weight:bold;">Sent:</div>Wed, 11 Sep 2019 11:54:18 -0700<br><div id="origionalMessageSubjectField" style="display:inline;font-weight:bold;">Subject:</div>Re: [TUHS] PWB vs Unix/TS<br><br><br>
On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 02:18:08PM -0400, Richard Salz wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;   It would have been<br>
&gt; &gt; much better if Sun had licensed their source base to AT&amp;T and then<br>
&gt; &gt; AT&amp;T could have leveraged the industry standard.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Interesting to speculate if that would have sped up the creation of OSF or<br>
&gt; delayed/prevented it.  I think the former.<br><br>
You're probably right but it wouldn't have mattered. SunOS was very popular<br>
and had a good VM system with a working mmap.  Once it became official<br>
AT&amp;T source everyone would have moved to it over time.<br><br>
Sort of obvious in retrospect.  Nobody, that I know of, considered it at<br>
the time.  I proposed open sourcing it.<br><br></blockquote></body></html>

  reply index

Thread overview: 82+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-09-09  6:25 Warner Losh
2019-09-09  6:36 ` arnold
2019-09-10 15:16 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11  0:28   ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-11  3:53   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-11 15:36     ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 16:55       ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was " Charles H Sauer
2019-09-12 19:31         ` Kevin Bowling
2019-09-12 20:59           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-12 21:09             ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses - Series/1 NUXI Ronald Natalie
2019-09-12 21:31             ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS Warner Losh
2019-09-12 22:30             ` jcs
2019-09-12 23:12               ` reed
2019-09-12 23:22                 ` jcs
2019-09-12 23:29               ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses Warren Toomey
2019-09-13  7:06                 ` arnold
2019-09-13  8:30                 ` SPC
2019-09-14 18:29                   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-12 21:29           ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS Charles H Sauer
2019-09-11 17:49       ` [TUHS] " Richard Salz
2019-09-11 17:52         ` ron
2019-09-11 21:44           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 18:11       ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-11 18:18         ` Richard Salz
2019-09-11 18:54           ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-11 21:05             ` Steve Johnson [this message]
2019-09-11 21:34             ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-11 21:57             ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 22:50               ` Arthur Krewat
2019-09-11 21:59           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 21:50         ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 22:49         ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-12  3:43           ` [TUHS] SCCS Larry McVoy
2019-09-12  4:20             ` George Michaelson
2019-09-12  4:31               ` [TUHS] [SPAM] SCCS Larry McVoy
2019-09-12 13:44                 ` Tony Finch
2019-09-13  4:11                   ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13  5:54                     ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-13  8:00                       ` Peter Jeremy
2019-09-13 15:23                         ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13 21:36                         ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-12  4:28             ` [TUHS] SCCS Jon Forrest
2019-09-12  4:33               ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-12  6:12                 ` William Corcoran
2019-09-12 14:35                   ` Clem Cole
2019-09-13  5:22                 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-13  5:50                   ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-12 16:45               ` Eric Allman
2019-09-12 17:29                 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-12 17:47                   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-13  8:12                   ` emanuel stiebler
2019-09-13 21:11                     ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-13 21:17                       ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13 21:48                         ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-13 23:12                           ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-13 23:03                         ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-14  1:55                           ` [TUHS] [SPAM] SCCS Larry McVoy
2019-09-16 17:23                             ` [TUHS] SCCS Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-16 20:31                               ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-17 17:57                                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-18  8:48                               ` Eric Allman
2019-09-18 17:33                                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-12 20:07             ` Nemo
2019-09-11 16:05   ` [TUHS] PWB vs Unix/TS Paul Winalski
2019-09-11 17:14     ` ron
2019-09-14  0:44   ` [TUHS] a book (was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS) reed
2019-09-14  2:53     ` Warner Losh
2019-09-15  2:18       ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15  2:39         ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15  3:24         ` Adam Thornton
2019-09-14 22:46     ` Clem cole
2019-09-15  0:58       ` Adam Thornton
2019-09-15  3:30         ` Eric Allman
2019-09-15  4:21           ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-15  5:17             ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15 20:14               ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15 20:21                 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15 20:12           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15 21:28             ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-15 23:27               ` Clem cole
2019-09-15 23:45                 ` Richard Salz
2019-09-15  7:43     ` Andy Kosela

Reply instructions:

You may reply publically to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=a970b6f0c9f2083f35ebff8a21fd1b1019cbc3ac@webmail.yaccman.com \
    --to=scj@yaccman.com \
    --cc=lm@mcvoy.com \
    --cc=rich.salz@gmail.com \
    --cc=tuhs@tuhs.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link

The Unix Heritage Society mailing list

Archives are clonable: git clone --mirror http://inbox.vuxu.org/tuhs

Example config snippet for mirrors

Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://inbox.vuxu.org/vuxu.archive.tuhs


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git