[TUHS] V4 in the Unix Archive, Finally

[TUHS] V4 in the Unix Archive, Finally

[Warren Toomey via TUHS]

Hi all, sorry for the delay but I've just added V4 to the Unix Archive here:

https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Utah_v4/

Thanks to everybody involved in finding the tape, recovering its contents,
uploading them to archive.org and then doing the subsequent analysis.

I will also incorporate the files into the Unix Tree. I just have to
rebuild it from scratch and it is going to take a few hours. Details soon.

Cheers, Warren

[TUHS] Re: V4 in the Unix Archive, Finally

[Warren Toomey via TUHS]

On Fri, Jan 30, 2026 at 11:12:21AM +1000, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> Hi all, sorry for the delay but I've just added V4 to the Unix Archive here:
> 
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Utah_v4/

And it's also now in the Unix Tree at

https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V4

Cheers, Warren

[TUHS] Re: V4 in the Unix Archive, Finally

[Briam Rodriguez via TUHS]

Amazing. Thank you!

-- Briam R.

On 1/29/26 9:57 PM, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2026 at 11:12:21AM +1000, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
>> Hi all, sorry for the delay but I've just added V4 to the Unix Archive here:
>>
>> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Utah_v4/
> And it's also now in the Unix Tree at
>
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V4
>
> Cheers, Warren

[TUHS] Re: V4 in the Unix Archive, Finally

[segaloco via TUHS]

On Friday, January 30th, 2026 at 09:18, Briam Rodriguez via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:

> Amazing. Thank you!
> 
> -- Briam R.
> 
> On 1/29/26 9:57 PM, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Jan 30, 2026 at 11:12:21AM +1000, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi all, sorry for the delay but I've just added V4 to the Unix Archive here:
> > > 
> > > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Utah_v4/
> > > And it's also now in the Unix Tree at
> > 
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V4
> > 
> > Cheers, Warren

Regarding the V4 manpage sources, would it be appropriate to merge those
with this entry in the tree at /usr/man?  At the very least the blurb on
the root directory should then probably mention the providence of the
two pieces and their being amalgamated for tree reasons.

- Matt G.

[TUHS] Re: Mix Utah V4 and the V4 Man Pages

[Warren Toomey via TUHS]

On 1/29/26 9:57 PM, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> Hi all, sorry for the delay but I've just added V4 to the Unix Archive here:
> 
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Utah_v4/
>
> And it's also now in the Unix Tree at
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V4

On Fri, Jan 30, 2026 at 06:08:30PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> Regarding the V4 manpage sources, would it be appropriate to merge those
> with this entry in the tree at /usr/man?  At the very least the blurb on
> the root directory should then probably mention the providence of the
> two pieces and their being amalgamated for tree reasons.

I wasn't sure if I should mix the V4 manuals from
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v4/
with the Utah tape as there is no nroff on the Utah tape but
the man pages are written in nroff.

But, yes, I can add some blurb that explains the amalgamation.

So, a related question, does anybody know why nroff was _not_ on the
Utah V4 tape, especially as it was a late snapshot of V4?

Does this also mean that Research kept a "working" version of Unix
with their usernames/passwords/working files etc. and somehow ken
would "cut" a tape with an RK05 image that came from a separate system?

Cheers, Warren

[TUHS] Re: Mix Utah V4 and the V4 Man Pages

[Jonathan Gray via TUHS]

On Sat, Jan 31, 2026 at 07:52:22AM +1000, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> On 1/29/26 9:57 PM, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> > Hi all, sorry for the delay but I've just added V4 to the Unix Archive here:
> > 
> > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Utah_v4/
> >
> > And it's also now in the Unix Tree at
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V4
> 
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2026 at 06:08:30PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> > Regarding the V4 manpage sources, would it be appropriate to merge those
> > with this entry in the tree at /usr/man?  At the very least the blurb on
> > the root directory should then probably mention the providence of the
> > two pieces and their being amalgamated for tree reasons.
> 
> I wasn't sure if I should mix the V4 manuals from
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v4/
> with the Utah tape as there is no nroff on the Utah tape but
> the man pages are written in nroff.
> 
> But, yes, I can add some blurb that explains the amalgamation.
> 
> So, a related question, does anybody know why nroff was _not_ on the
> Utah V4 tape, especially as it was a late snapshot of V4?

Documented as not being on the tape:

"The following programs out of the programmer's manual are not
provided: catsim(I), man(I), nroff(I), opr(I), plot(I), speak(I),
troff(I), tss(I), gerts(III), vt(III), azel(VI), m6(VI),
maze(VI), ov(VI), sky(VI), spline(VI), tmg(VI), yacc(VI),
dpd(VII), tmheader(VII), vs(VII), 20boot(VIII) and update(VIII).

The source of the following programs from the manual is not
provided: cref(I), proof(I), bj(VI), chess(VI), cubic(VI),
moo(VI), ttt(VI) and wump(VI)."

https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Applications/Dennis_Tapes/Gao_Analysis/v4_dist/setup.pdf

Though the Utah tape has a yacc binary and update.

[TUHS] Re: Mix Utah V4 and the V4 Man Pages

[segaloco via TUHS]

On Saturday, January 31st, 2026 at 20:03, Jonathan Gray via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 31, 2026 at 07:52:22AM +1000, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> 
> > On 1/29/26 9:57 PM, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi all, sorry for the delay but I've just added V4 to the Unix Archive here:
> > > 
> > > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Utah_v4/
> > > 
> > > And it's also now in the Unix Tree at
> > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V4
> > 
> > On Fri, Jan 30, 2026 at 06:08:30PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> > 
> > > Regarding the V4 manpage sources, would it be appropriate to merge those
> > > with this entry in the tree at /usr/man? At the very least the blurb on
> > > the root directory should then probably mention the providence of the
> > > two pieces and their being amalgamated for tree reasons.
> > 
> > I wasn't sure if I should mix the V4 manuals from
> > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v4/
> > with the Utah tape as there is no nroff on the Utah tape but
> > the man pages are written in nroff.
> > 
> > But, yes, I can add some blurb that explains the amalgamation.
> > 
> > So, a related question, does anybody know why nroff was not on the
> > Utah V4 tape, especially as it was a late snapshot of V4?
> 
> 
> Documented as not being on the tape:
> 
> "The following programs out of the programmer's manual are not
> provided: catsim(I), man(I), nroff(I), opr(I), plot(I), speak(I),
> troff(I), tss(I), gerts(III), vt(III), azel(VI), m6(VI),
> maze(VI), ov(VI), sky(VI), spline(VI), tmg(VI), yacc(VI),
> dpd(VII), tmheader(VII), vs(VII), 20boot(VIII) and update(VIII).
> 
> The source of the following programs from the manual is not
> provided: cref(I), proof(I), bj(VI), chess(VI), cubic(VI),
> moo(VI), ttt(VI) and wump(VI)."
> 
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Applications/Dennis_Tapes/Gao_Analysis/v4_dist/setup.pdf
> 
> Though the Utah tape has a yacc binary and update.

Actually, what is the "man.tap" available here?

https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Utah_v4/

I'm not somewhere I can dig around more than with od, certainly looks
like there are manpage sources in there.

From the looks of it, nroff was missing from other, earlier versions
as well.  For instance, the s1/s2 bits tapes don't appear to have nroff
present despite it being in the V2 manual.  Is it known whether nroff
was primarily developed on the "trunk" MH PDP-11 or if it might have
lived elsewhere, leading to it not getting swept along for the tapes cut
for external users?

- Matt G.

[TUHS] Re: Mix Utah V4 and the V4 Man Pages

[Angelo Papenhoff via TUHS]

That would be the Dennis_V4 manual source which i've put onto a tape so
you can load it on V4 and have a usable manual (i included nroff from v6
in my "distro" too), see my expanded guide at http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4/README

aap

> Actually, what is the "man.tap" available here?
> 
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Utah_v4/
> 
> I'm not somewhere I can dig around more than with od, certainly looks
> like there are manpage sources in there.
> 
> From the looks of it, nroff was missing from other, earlier versions
> as well.  For instance, the s1/s2 bits tapes don't appear to have nroff
> present despite it being in the V2 manual.  Is it known whether nroff
> was primarily developed on the "trunk" MH PDP-11 or if it might have
> lived elsewhere, leading to it not getting swept along for the tapes cut
> for external users?
> 
> - Matt G.