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* [TUHS] networking on unix before uucp
@ 2014-08-22  3:42 Mark Longridge
  2014-08-22 15:09 ` Mary Ann Horton
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Mark Longridge @ 2014-08-22  3:42 UTC (permalink / raw)


Hi folks,

I was wondering if Unix had any form of networking before uucp
appeared in Unix v7. It would be interesting to know if one could pass
a file from one Unix v5 machine to another without having to store it
on a magnetic tape.

There's some reference to a mysterious "Spider Interface" in the Unix
v5 manual. It seems to have something to do with DR-11B (which is a
general purpose direct memory access interface to the PDP-11 Unibus).

There's also reference to the "Spider line-printer" :)

Mark



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] networking on unix before uucp
@ 2014-08-22 13:27 Noel Chiappa
  2014-08-22 13:32 ` Ronald Natalie
  2014-08-22 13:35 ` Ronald Natalie
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Noel Chiappa @ 2014-08-22 13:27 UTC (permalink / raw)


    > From: Mark Longridge <cubexyz at gmail.com>

    > I was wondering if Unix had any form of networking before uucp appeared
    > in Unix v7. 

In general, no, but I know of a number of networked Unixes prior to V6.

ISTR that there were a number of Unixes attached to the ARPANET; I know at
least one (at UIllinois) was - that was a V6 machine.

There were several different TCP/IP implementations done under V6; the
UIllinois guys did one (in C), BBN did one (by Jack Haverty, who ported one
done in assembler by IIRC SRI), and one was done at MIT (by Liza Martin, in
C). I don't think any of them saw significant deployment.

	Noel



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] networking on unix before uucp
@ 2014-08-22 16:35 Noel Chiappa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Noel Chiappa @ 2014-08-22 16:35 UTC (permalink / raw)


    > From: Dan Cross <crossd at gmail.com>

    > Unix was on the ARPAnet circa 1975 (if not earlier):
    > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc681

Good catch; I didn't know of that document. There is a later, more extensive
document (set) about it, "A Network Unix System for the ARPANET", but that's
from several years later, and doesn't include anything about the history of
the implementation.

    > it's entirely possible that the ARPAnet Unix work was done before V6
    > ...
    > if I had to hazard a guess I'd say they were running V5; perhaps
    > heavily patched.

The RFC says this (translated to lower case since the all-upper made my
eyes hurt :-):

  FOr further information concerning the different I/O calls the reader is
  directed to The Unix Programmer's Manual, Fifth Edition, K. Thompson,
  D. M. Ritchie, June 1974.

which I think makes it pretty definitive...

      Noel



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] networking on unix before uucp
@ 2014-08-23  3:08 Brian Walden
  2014-08-23 18:02 ` Sven Mascheck
  2014-08-23 19:32 ` Clem Cole
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Brian Walden @ 2014-08-23  3:08 UTC (permalink / raw)


Doug McIlroy wrote:
> > I was wondering if Unix had any form of networking before uucp
> 
> Right from the time Unix came up on the PDP-11 it was
> networked in the sense that it had dial-in and dial-out
> modems. Fairly early on, when Unixes appeared in other
> Bell Labs locations, Charlie Roberts provided a program
> for logging into another machine. It had an escape for
> file transfer, so it covered the basic functionality
> of rsh and ftp. It was not included in distributions,
> however, and its name escapes me. Maybe scj can add
> further details.
> 
> Doug

Are you thinking of the cu (call unix) command? But that was included in v7,
and don't think it was part of uucp. The escape was  ~   So a ~. to hangup,
~%put to send a file to the remote and ~%take to get one, and  ~~ to send a ~

later on, there was a ct (call terminal) command, expecting a terminal at the end
of phone line instead of another machine.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] networking on unix before uucp
@ 2014-08-26  6:44 Jason Stevens
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Jason Stevens @ 2014-08-26  6:44 UTC (permalink / raw)


The 3b1 emulator now kind of boot!..

There is some issues with stuff, but for the most part, it works

http://virtuallyfun.superglobalmegacorp.com/?p=4149



-----Original Message-----
From: arnold@skeeve.com [mailto:arnold@skeeve.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 2:17 PM
To: lyndon at orthanc.ca; lm at mcvoy.com
Cc: rob at bolabs.com; tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] networking on unix before uucp

Larry McVoy <lm at mcvoy.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 01:00:45PM -0700, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
> > It was quite astounding to see the wide range of performance impacts
> > this had on various systems.  3B* systems would tip over and die, except
> > for the (built by Convergent Tech) 3B1.
>
> Sheesh, you people keep bringing up stuff from my past.  My buddy Rob
> Netzer (used to be a prof at Brown, now works on BitKeeper with me)
> had one of those 3B1s.  Neat machine.  Sort of like a desktop VAX.

I had one too. (Also a trailblazer and then a worldblazer.) The 3B1 ran
SVR2; the BSD networking was available as an add-on with the ethernet
card.

I spent many happy hours working on that box, developing gawk and its
documentation; it was slow enough that you could see algorithmic
differences, e.g. standard diff vs. GNU diff.

It had one of those great AT&T keyboards (as did the blit).  The UI
wasn't anything special to write home about though.

For a while there was a separate 3b1.* set of newsgroups and an
archive of stuff at Ohio State; there remains a comp.sys.3b1 group
that still has some activity as new people try to revive some of
these machines and others who had them help out. Someone was writing
an emulator, but I don't think it ever got finished.

Ah, the memories .... :-)

Arnold
_______________________________________________
TUHS mailing list
TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] networking on unix before uucp
@ 2014-08-26 16:56 Noel Chiappa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Noel Chiappa @ 2014-08-26 16:56 UTC (permalink / raw)


    > From: "Jeremy C. Reed" <reed at reedmedia.net>

    > Later, they considered an LNI, an early token ring (if I understand
    > correctly), device

Yes. See:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/history/RingMIT.txt

for more - that's a pre-print version of an article just published in the
_IEEE Annals of the History of Computing_; slight differences with the final
version, but nothing significant.

Thumbnail: There were two versions; V1 was 1MBit/second, produced in very
limited numbers (~10 or so) at MIT, most used there, although IIRC correctly
at pair (at least - one would be of no use :-) went to UCLA (I remember flying
out to LA to help them get them going). V2 was 10Mbit/second, produced as a
commercial product by Proteon in cooperation with MIT, large numbers sold.

	Noel



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2014-09-02 20:06 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 46+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2014-08-22  3:42 [TUHS] networking on unix before uucp Mark Longridge
2014-08-22 15:09 ` Mary Ann Horton
2014-08-22 22:12   ` Cory Smelosky
2014-08-24 22:46     ` Clem Cole
2014-08-24 23:00       ` Clem Cole
2014-08-24 23:07       ` A. P. Garcia
2014-08-24 23:43         ` Clem Cole
2014-08-25 14:21         ` Ronald Natalie
2014-08-26 16:36     ` Jeremy C. Reed
2014-08-26 23:20       ` Clem Cole
2014-08-22 15:18 ` Dan Cross
2014-08-22 15:20   ` Dan Cross
2014-08-22 15:57   ` John Cowan
2014-08-22 16:06     ` Ronald Natalie
2014-08-22 18:11       ` Dave Horsfall
2014-08-22 17:51         ` Larry McVoy
2014-08-22 19:24           ` John Cowan
2014-08-22 20:37           ` Dave Horsfall
2014-08-22 20:16             ` Larry McVoy
     [not found]               ` <alpine.BSF.2.00.1408230659490.42071@aneurin.horsfall.org>
2014-08-23  2:30                 ` Larry McVoy
2014-08-22 19:32         ` John Cowan
2014-09-02 19:15     ` [TUHS] portal daemon (was Re: networking on unix before uucp) Aaron J. Grier
2014-09-02 19:57       ` Clem Cole
2014-09-02 20:06         ` Erik E. Fair
2014-08-22 18:01 ` [TUHS] networking on unix before uucp Dave Horsfall
2014-08-22 13:27 Noel Chiappa
2014-08-22 13:32 ` Ronald Natalie
2014-08-22 13:35 ` Ronald Natalie
2014-08-22 16:35 Noel Chiappa
2014-08-23  3:08 Brian Walden
2014-08-23 18:02 ` Sven Mascheck
2014-08-23 19:32 ` Clem Cole
2014-08-24  4:59   ` Larry McVoy
     [not found]     ` <53FB4B6D.5070404@e-bbes.com>
2014-08-25 14:45       ` Larry McVoy
2014-08-25 15:22         ` A. P. Garcia
2014-08-25 15:49         ` arnold
2014-08-25 19:01           ` emanuel stiebler
2014-08-25 19:20             ` arnold
2014-08-25 20:00               ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2014-08-25 21:06                 ` John Cowan
2014-08-25 21:14                   ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2014-08-25 21:17                     ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2014-08-26  3:26                 ` Larry McVoy
2014-08-26  6:17                   ` arnold
2014-08-26  6:44 Jason Stevens
2014-08-26 16:56 Noel Chiappa

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