[TUHS] A Talk on Early Unix

[TUHS] A Talk on Early Unix

[Warren Toomey]

All, I was invited to give a talk at a symposium in Paris
on the early years of Unix. Slides and recording at:
http://minnie.tuhs.org/Z3/Hapop3/

Feel free to point out the inaccuracies :-)
For example, I thought Unix was used at some point
as the OS for some of the ESS switches in AT&T, but
now I think I was mistaken.

That's a temp URL, it will move somewhere else
eventually.

Cheers, Warren

[TUHS] A Talk on Early Unix

[arnold]

> For example, I thought Unix was used at some point as the OS for some
> of the ESS switches in AT&T, but now I think I was mistaken.

I think that your initial statement is correct. At Georgia Tech AT&T gave
us some 3B20s - vax size and larger, running System V, and I remember some
discussion that they were used inside AT&T as switches.

This, of course, is second hand information; perhaps some of the Bell Labs
alumni can verify for real.

Arnold

[TUHS] A Talk on Early Unix

[Andrew Warkentin]

On 6/30/16, arnold at skeeve.com <arnold at skeeve.com> wrote:
>> For example, I thought Unix was used at some point as the OS for some
>> of the ESS switches in AT&T, but now I think I was mistaken.
>
> I think that your initial statement is correct. At Georgia Tech AT&T gave
> us some 3B20s - vax size and larger, running System V, and I remember some
> discussion that they were used inside AT&T as switches.
>
> This, of course, is second hand information; perhaps some of the Bell Labs
> alumni can verify for real.
>
> Arnold
>


AFAIK the later ESS switches include a 3B machine but it only handles
some administrative functions, with most of the the actual call
processing being performed in dedicated hardware.

[TUHS] A Talk on Early Unix

[Andrew Warkentin]

On 6/30/16, Andrew Warkentin <andreww591 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/30/16, arnold at skeeve.com <arnold at skeeve.com> wrote:
>>> For example, I thought Unix was used at some point as the OS for some
>>> of the ESS switches in AT&T, but now I think I was mistaken.
>>
>> I think that your initial statement is correct. At Georgia Tech AT&T gave
>> us some 3B20s - vax size and larger, running System V, and I remember
>> some
>> discussion that they were used inside AT&T as switches.
>>
>> This, of course, is second hand information; perhaps some of the Bell
>> Labs
>> alumni can verify for real.
>>
>> Arnold
>>
>
>
> AFAIK the later ESS switches include a 3B machine but it only handles
> some administrative functions, with most of the the actual call
> processing being performed in dedicated hardware.
>

I really should stop using Gmail's web interface and find an MUA that
has a "reply to list" feature and defaults to replying to the list for
messages from the list (it would presumably need explicit filters to
detect messages from some lists because not all lists use the
List-Post header). It's annoying when I try to reply to the list and
instead end up replying to only the poster (I know about the problems
with Reply-To munging; I'm not sure why it isn't more common for MUAs
to have a "reply to list" feature to better deal with lists that don't
munge Reply-To).

[TUHS] A Talk on Early Unix

[Steve Nickolas]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016, Andrew Warkentin wrote:

> I really should stop using Gmail's web interface and find an MUA that
> has a "reply to list" feature and defaults to replying to the list for
> messages from the list (it would presumably need explicit filters to
> detect messages from some lists because not all lists use the
> List-Post header). It's annoying when I try to reply to the list and
> instead end up replying to only the poster (I know about the problems
> with Reply-To munging; I'm not sure why it isn't more common for MUAs
> to have a "reply to list" feature to better deal with lists that don't
> munge Reply-To).

I have to go through a bunch of finagling to reply to some lists, 
including this one, via Alpine.  At least if I select "reply all", I can 
just cut-and-paste the addresses.  I think it's configurable in the list 
manager daemon.

I do seem to remember it being a bigger pain with Google mailing lists.

-uso.

[TUHS] List reply-to

[Warren Toomey]

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 04:39:22AM -0600, Andrew Warkentin wrote:
> I really should stop using Gmail's web interface and find an MUA that
> has a "reply to list" feature and defaults to replying to the list for
> messages from the list.

I'm running a fairly default Mailman setup for TUHS. The reply-to option
is set to be the original poster. I can change it to the list address if
most people are happy for it to be that way.

Mind you, I'm sure either choice won't be suitable for all subscribers.

Cheers, Warren

[TUHS] A Talk on Early Unix

[Nemo]

On 30 June 2016 at 06:30, Andrew Warkentin <andreww591 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/30/16, arnold at skeeve.com <arnold at skeeve.com> wrote:
>>> For example, I thought Unix was used at some point as the OS for some
>>> of the ESS switches in AT&T, but now I think I was mistaken.
>>
>> I think that your initial statement is correct. At Georgia Tech AT&T gave
>> us some 3B20s - vax size and larger, running System V, and I remember some
>> discussion that they were used inside AT&T as switches.
>>
>> This, of course, is second hand information; perhaps some of the Bell Labs
>> alumni can verify for real.
>>
>> Arnold
>>
>
> AFAIK the later ESS switches include a 3B machine but it only handles
> some administrative functions, with most of the the actual call
> processing being performed in dedicated hardware.

I feel dated:  2ESS was just coming in and offices had Strowger
switches when I left that field. Wikipedia
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5ESS_Switching_System) claims that 5ESS
ran under UNIX-RTR.

N.

[TUHS] List reply-to

[Steve Nickolas]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016, Warren Toomey wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 04:39:22AM -0600, Andrew Warkentin wrote:
>> I really should stop using Gmail's web interface and find an MUA that
>> has a "reply to list" feature and defaults to replying to the list for
>> messages from the list.
>
> I'm running a fairly default Mailman setup for TUHS. The reply-to option
> is set to be the original poster. I can change it to the list address if
> most people are happy for it to be that way.
>
> Mind you, I'm sure either choice won't be suitable for all subscribers.
>
> Cheers, Warren
>

Of course nothing will please everybody. xD

With Alpine at least I think if it's set to reply-to the list address by 
default, then it'll just ask me when I hit reply, whether I want to use 
the reply-to address or not, so I can have it both ways.  Dunno about more 
"civilized" mail clients though - I've barely ever used anything that 
wasn't Pine. ;)

-uso.

[TUHS] A Talk on Early Unix

[Dave Horsfall]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016, Andrew Warkentin wrote:

> I really should stop using Gmail's web interface and find an MUA that 
> has a "reply to list" feature and defaults to replying to the list for 
> messages from the list (it would presumably need explicit filters to 
> detect messages from some lists because not all lists use the List-Post 
> header). It's annoying when I try to reply to the list and instead end 
> up replying to only the poster (I know about the problems with Reply-To 
> munging; I'm not sure why it isn't more common for MUAs to have a "reply 
> to list" feature to better deal with lists that don't munge Reply-To).

I'm a FreeBSD/Alpine bigot myself, but I've heard good things about 
Linux/Mutt.

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

[TUHS] List reply-to

[Dave Horsfall]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016, Warren Toomey wrote:

> I'm running a fairly default Mailman setup for TUHS. The reply-to option 
> is set to be the original poster. I can change it to the list address if 
> most people are happy for it to be that way.
> 
> Mind you, I'm sure either choice won't be suitable for all subscribers.

You'll make enemies either way :-)

I once ran a list with Reply-To set to the list, and people used to 
replying to sender posted some sensitive information...

My preference is "list", and lusers will quickly learn after their first 
mistake...  This is a technical mailing list, after all.

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

[TUHS] List reply-to

[Random832]

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016, at 08:17, Warren Toomey wrote:
> I'm running a fairly default Mailman setup for TUHS. The reply-to option
> is set to be the original poster. I can change it to the list address if
> most people are happy for it to be that way.
> 
> Mind you, I'm sure either choice won't be suitable for all subscribers.

My own email works fine with it as-is, it shows a "reply to list" button
based on, I assume, the List-Post header.

I'd worry that changing the Reply-To header to be the list would (in
addition to obliterating the original reply-to for the odd poster that
has it distinct from their from address) make the "reply to sender"
button go to the list and force people to copy the address manually.

[TUHS] List reply-to

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Thursday, 30 June 2016 at 22:17:30 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 04:39:22AM -0600, Andrew Warkentin wrote:
>> I really should stop using Gmail's web interface and find an MUA that
>> has a "reply to list" feature and defaults to replying to the list for
>> messages from the list.
>
> I'm running a fairly default Mailman setup for TUHS. The reply-to option
> is set to be the original poster. I can change it to the list address if
> most people are happy for it to be that way.

I'd be happy to see that change.  Ideally I think that the reply
should be both to the list and to the poster, but if some MUAs find
the concept too difficult, then the list seems the right choice.

Greg
--
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