From: usotsuki@buric.co (Steve Nickolas)
Subject: [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie!
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:52:18 -0400 (EDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.02.1709141549110.1652@frieza.hoshinet.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170914193010.mlx4jkqcxcqfwe4c@thunk.org>
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 12:15:32PM -0400, Steve Nickolas wrote:
>>> Maybe some are deluded like that. But the more typical case (and I saw
>>> this personally not just on "the Internet") are those who actively and
>>> consciously disdain Unix, and want Penguin kernel based systems to move
>>> to a completely new and different userland, free from any links to Unix
>>> history.
>>>
>>> And we should stop assuming they're kidding when they say so openly.
>>>
>>
>> Isn't that pretty much just Lennart Poettering and his fan club?
>
> It's mostly Lennart Poettering and his fan club, but it's also
> important to remember that Unix was not perfect.
>
> For years, I've been ranting about the telldir/seekdir interface, for
> which JFS has three b-trees that have to be updated for every
> directory operation --- one of which was added *just* because of
> telldir/seekdir. Other file systems make other design choices or go
> through other bits of hell just because of telldir/seekdir, but
> assuming a 32-bit cookie which must survive potentially indefinitely,
> with the readdir "will return file names exactly zero or one times"
> guarantees required by POSIX, is rather hellish.
>
> Or, say the atime update requirement, which can be a performance
> killer, and for which the default on Linux violates Posix, and so I
> suppose it technically isn't allowed to use the Unix trademark anyway.
>
> I'm sure the Plan 9 folks could come up with other Unix shortcomings. :-)
>
> - Ted
>
I never managed to pull it off, but I tried creating a full live Linux
environment based on musl, clang, Heirloom Toolchest and OpenBSD/NetBSD
sources. The idea was that I wanted to make a "Real Unix" that happened
to have Linux as its kernel. (It also would have run the CDE as its
default desktop.)
One thing I did come up with was, if I were to pull it off, it would be a
Linux distribution that rightfully could NOT be called, by any means,
"GNU/Linux" - and some heads would explode.
(I still want to do it, but I remain at a loss as to execution.)
-uso.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-09-14 19:52 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 204+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-09-08 20:54 Dave Horsfall
2017-09-08 21:04 ` Noel Chiappa
2017-09-08 21:09 ` Michael Kjörling
2017-09-09 1:16 ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-09 1:30 ` [TUHS] File-as-record (was: Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie!) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2017-09-09 1:43 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-09 1:50 ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-09 13:59 ` [TUHS] File-as-record Arthur Krewat
2017-09-11 17:26 ` [TUHS] File-as-record (was: Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie!) Paul Winalski
2017-09-09 4:34 ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! Steve Johnson
2017-09-09 13:04 ` William Cheswick
2017-09-09 17:26 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-09 17:49 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-09 19:40 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-09 20:33 ` Lawrence Stewart
2017-09-09 21:56 ` Steve Johnson
2017-09-10 1:27 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-11 16:20 ` Paul Winalski
2017-09-09 15:55 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-08 22:28 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-09 11:04 ` Michael Kjörling
2017-09-09 11:19 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-08 21:05 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-08 21:14 ` William Pechter
2017-09-08 22:13 ` Angus Robinson
2017-09-08 23:11 ` William Pechter
2017-09-09 5:13 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-09 15:41 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-09 4:20 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-11 16:30 ` Paul Winalski
2017-09-11 16:49 ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! [ really sun vs dec/apollo ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-11 17:37 ` Paul Winalski
2017-09-11 23:09 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-12 7:38 ` arnold
2017-09-12 14:12 ` Ronald Natalie
2017-09-12 14:51 ` Toby Thain
2017-09-12 15:33 ` arnold
2017-09-12 15:35 ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! [ really sun vs dec/apollo --> X and NeWS ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-12 16:57 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-12 17:04 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-12 17:07 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-12 22:11 ` [TUHS] X and NeWS history (long) Jon Steinhart
2017-09-12 22:58 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-12 23:22 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-12 23:44 ` Chris Torek
2017-09-12 23:41 ` Adam Sampson
2017-09-13 0:14 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13 16:38 ` [TUHS] old X versions (was:X and NeWS history) Christian Groessler
2017-09-13 19:10 ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-13 19:13 ` Henry Bent
2017-09-19 0:44 ` Random832
2017-09-19 10:30 ` Nigel Williams
2017-09-19 14:05 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-19 15:16 ` Gregg Levine
2017-09-19 15:39 ` [TUHS] old X versions Chet Ramey
2017-09-19 18:23 ` Nemo
2017-09-19 18:32 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-19 18:32 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-19 18:34 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-19 18:43 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-19 19:19 ` Stephen Kitt
2017-09-19 15:40 ` [TUHS] old X versions (was:X and NeWS history) Clem Cole
2017-09-19 17:01 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-19 17:15 ` Gregg Levine
2017-09-19 18:56 ` Derek Fawcus
2017-09-19 19:22 ` [TUHS] old X versions Arthur Krewat
2017-09-19 20:15 ` [TUHS] old X versions (was:X and NeWS history) Gregg Levine
2017-09-19 18:30 ` Nemo
2017-09-19 23:40 ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-19 23:46 ` [TUHS] old X versions Grant Taylor
2017-09-20 0:06 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-13 0:29 ` [TUHS] X and NeWS history (long) Bakul Shah
2017-09-13 0:52 ` ron minnich
2017-09-13 0:54 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-13 0:56 ` ron minnich
2017-09-13 0:57 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-13 2:06 ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-13 3:34 ` ron minnich
2017-09-13 3:55 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13 15:16 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-13 15:42 ` [TUHS] X and NeWS history (long) [ really systemd, student access to real code ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13 1:42 ` [TUHS] X and NeWS history (long) Arthur Krewat
2017-09-13 2:27 ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-13 16:14 ` Lawrence Stewart
2017-09-13 0:56 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13 1:34 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-13 2:43 ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-13 3:01 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13 3:25 ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-13 3:27 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13 15:09 ` Tony Finch
2017-09-13 15:19 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-12 23:33 ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! [ really sun vs dec/apollo --> X and NeWS ] Dave Horsfall
2017-09-12 20:15 ` Steve Johnson
2017-09-13 2:23 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-14 0:53 ` Nemo
2017-09-14 1:18 ` Henry Bent
2017-09-14 3:15 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-14 9:35 ` Rico Pajarola
2017-09-14 11:11 ` arnold
2017-09-14 12:13 ` Rico Pajarola
2017-09-14 12:50 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-14 13:27 ` Rico Pajarola
2017-09-14 14:30 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-14 13:21 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-14 19:44 ` arnold
2017-09-14 20:22 ` [TUHS] Tools and building: libtool, autoconf, etc. [ trying to have a relevant subject line ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-14 20:32 ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-14 21:00 ` Chris Torek
2017-09-14 21:03 ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-14 22:26 ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-16 3:34 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-16 4:16 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-16 5:08 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-16 3:33 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-14 20:41 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-14 21:00 ` Noel Hunt
2017-09-15 17:42 ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! [ really sun vs dec/apollo --> X and NeWS ] Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-14 20:31 ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-15 3:16 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-15 3:33 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-15 8:32 ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-15 12:42 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-15 18:20 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-15 18:37 ` Paul Winalski
2017-09-13 7:30 ` arnold
2017-09-13 13:35 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-13 23:55 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-14 0:18 ` Henry Bent
2017-09-14 2:10 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-14 19:37 ` Steve Johnson
2017-09-14 19:54 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-14 20:50 ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-14 21:00 ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-14 20:11 ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-14 20:26 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-19 0:52 ` Random832
2017-09-19 2:50 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19 2:56 ` Gregg Levine
2017-09-19 3:37 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19 6:52 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2017-09-19 7:22 ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-19 13:22 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19 13:53 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-19 13:56 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19 17:56 ` Random832
2017-09-19 18:31 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-19 18:34 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19 19:31 ` Lawrence Stewart
2017-09-20 3:13 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-23 22:24 ` Ralph Corderoy
2017-09-19 14:32 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-19 14:42 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19 15:12 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-19 18:03 ` Random832
2017-09-10 9:44 ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! arnold
2017-09-13 23:22 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-14 16:11 ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-14 16:15 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-14 19:30 ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-09-14 19:52 ` Steve Nickolas [this message]
2017-09-14 22:03 ` Christian Groessler
2017-09-14 22:39 ` Erik Berls
2017-09-14 22:52 ` ron minnich
2017-09-14 23:04 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-14 23:14 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-15 19:01 ` Chris Torek
2017-09-15 19:50 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2017-09-15 19:56 ` ron minnich
2017-09-15 20:34 ` Chris Torek
2017-09-14 23:06 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-15 0:47 ` ron minnich
2017-09-14 19:39 ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-14 20:09 ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! [ really Pottering vs UNIX ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-14 21:35 ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! Theodore Ts'o
2017-09-15 1:40 ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-15 14:04 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-16 3:40 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-16 7:45 ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-16 12:59 ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-16 18:19 ` Andy Kosela
2017-09-17 18:37 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-18 15:11 ` Steve Johnson
2017-09-16 19:20 ` arnold
2017-09-17 1:43 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-17 1:55 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-17 2:14 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-17 2:18 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-17 14:27 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-17 5:13 ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-17 5:19 ` arnold
2017-09-17 18:49 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-17 18:57 ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-17 19:08 ` Warner Losh
2017-09-17 19:33 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-17 19:22 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-17 18:43 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-18 0:12 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-18 0:51 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-17 18:25 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-17 18:31 Norman Wilson
2017-09-21 10:11 Doug McIlroy
2017-09-21 17:23 ` Mutiny
2017-09-21 20:15 ` Nemo
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