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* [TUHS] Unix on Zilog Z8000?
@ 2020-01-21 17:52 Jon Forrest
  2020-01-21 18:13 ` Steve Nickolas
                   ` (4 more replies)
  0 siblings, 5 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Jon Forrest @ 2020-01-21 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list

There's been a lot of discussion about early Unix on Intel, National
Semi, Motorola, and Sparc processors. I don't recall if Unix ran on
the Z8000, and if not, why not.

As I remember the Z8000 was going to be the great white hope that
would continue Zilog's success with the Z80 into modern times.
But, it obviously didn't happen.

Why?

Jon

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Unix on Zilog Z8000?
@ 2020-01-22 10:56 Paul Ruizendaal
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Paul Ruizendaal @ 2020-01-22 10:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TUHS main list

A somewhat comparable machine to the Onyx was the Zilog S8000. It ran “Zeus”, which was also a Unix version:
https://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/zilog/s8000/

Instead of the MMU described below it used the Zilog segmented MMU chips, 3 of them. These could be used to give a plain 16 bit address space divided in 3 segments, or could be used with the segmented addresses of the Z8001. The approach used by Onyx seems much cleaner to me, and reminiscent of the MMU on a DG Eclipse.

I think the original chips were the Z8000 (unsegmented) and the the Z8001 (segmented). These could not abort/restart instructions and were replaced by the Z8002 (unsegmented) and Z8003 (segmented). On these chips one could effectively assert reset during a fault and this would leave the registers in a state where a software routine could roll back the faulted instruction.

If the sources to the Onyx Unix survived, it would be interesting to see if it used this capability of the Z8002 and implemented a form demand paging.

Last but not least, the Xenix overview I linked earlier (http://seefigure1.com/images/xenix/xenix-timeline.jpg) shows Xenix ports to 4 other Z800 machines: Paradyne, Compucorp, Bleasedale and Kontron; maybe all of these never got to production.


> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 21:32:51 +0000
> From: Derek Fawcus <dfawcus+lists-tuhs@employees.org>
> To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list <tuhs@tuhs.org>
> Subject: [TUHS] Onyx (was Re:  Unix on Zilog Z8000?)
> Message-ID: <20200121213251.GA25322@clarinet.employees.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 01:28:14PM -0500, Clem Cole wrote:
>> The Onyx box redated all the 68K and later Intel or other systems.
> 
> That was a fun bit of grubbing around courtesy of a bitsavers mirror
> (https://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/onyx/).
> 
> It seems they started with a board based upon the non-segmented Z8002
> and only later switched to using the segmented Z8001.  In the initial
> board, they created their own MMU:
> 
>  Page 6 of: https://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/onyx/c8002/Onyx_C8002_Brochure.pdf
> 
>  Memory Management Controller:
> 
>  The Memory Management Controller (MMC) enables the C8002 to perform
>  address translation, memory block protection, and separation of
>  instruction and data spaces. Sixteen independent map sets are
>  implemented, with each map set consisting of an instruction map and
>  a data map. Within each map there are 32 page registers. Each page
>  register relocates and validates a 2K byte page. The MMC generates
>  a 20 bit address allowing the C8002 to access up to one Mbyte of
>  physical memory.
> 
> So I'd guess the MMC was actually programed through I/O instuctions
> to io space, and hence preserved the necessary protection domains.
> 
> Cute.  I've had a background interest in the Z8000 (triggered by reading
> a Z80000 datasheet around 87/88), and always though about using
> the segmented rather than unsegmented device.
> 
> The following has a bit more info about the version of System III
> ported to their boxes:
> 
>  https://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/onyx/c8002/UNIX_3.0.3_Software_Release_Notice_May83.pdf
> 
> DF

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Unix on Zilog Z8000?
@ 2020-01-22 13:14 Paul Ruizendaal
  2020-01-22 15:14 ` Clem Cole
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Paul Ruizendaal @ 2020-01-22 13:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TUHS main list

My memory failed me: the part numbers were Z8001/Z8002 for the original and Z8003/Z8004 for the revised chips (segmented/unsegmented).

Hence it is unlikely that the Onyx had any form of demand paging (other than extending the stack in PDP11-like fashion).

——

A somewhat comparable machine to the Onyx was the Zilog S8000. It ran “Zeus”, which was also a Unix version:
https://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/zilog/s8000/

Instead of the MMU described below it used the Zilog segmented MMU chips, 3 of them. These could be used to give a plain 16 bit address space divided in 3 segments, or could be used with the segmented addresses of the Z8001. The approach used by Onyx seems much cleaner to me, and reminiscent of the MMU on a DG Eclipse.

I think the original chips were the Z8000 (unsegmented) and the the Z8001 (segmented). These could not abort/restart instructions and were replaced by the Z8002 (unsegmented) and Z8003 (segmented). On these chips one could effectively assert reset during a fault and this would leave the registers in a state where a software routine could roll back the faulted instruction.

If the sources to the Onyx Unix survived, it would be interesting to see if it used this capability of the Z8002 and implemented a form demand paging.

Last but not least, the Xenix overview I linked earlier (http://seefigure1.com/images/xenix/xenix-timeline.jpg) shows Xenix ports to 4 other Z800 machines: Paradyne, Compucorp, Bleasedale and Kontron; maybe all of these never got to production.


> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 21:32:51 +0000
> From: Derek Fawcus <dfawcus+lists-tuhs@employees.org>
> To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list <tuhs@tuhs.org>
> Subject: [TUHS] Onyx (was Re:  Unix on Zilog Z8000?)
> Message-ID: <20200121213251.GA25322@clarinet.employees.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 01:28:14PM -0500, Clem Cole wrote:
>> The Onyx box redated all the 68K and later Intel or other systems.
> 
> That was a fun bit of grubbing around courtesy of a bitsavers mirror
> (https://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/onyx/).
> 
> It seems they started with a board based upon the non-segmented Z8002
> and only later switched to using the segmented Z8001.  In the initial
> board, they created their own MMU:
> 
> Page 6 of: https://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/onyx/c8002/Onyx_C8002_Brochure.pdf
> 
> Memory Management Controller:
> 
> The Memory Management Controller (MMC) enables the C8002 to perform
> address translation, memory block protection, and separation of
> instruction and data spaces. Sixteen independent map sets are
> implemented, with each map set consisting of an instruction map and
> a data map. Within each map there are 32 page registers. Each page
> register relocates and validates a 2K byte page. The MMC generates
> a 20 bit address allowing the C8002 to access up to one Mbyte of
> physical memory.
> 
> So I'd guess the MMC was actually programed through I/O instuctions
> to io space, and hence preserved the necessary protection domains.
> 
> Cute.  I've had a background interest in the Z8000 (triggered by reading
> a Z80000 datasheet around 87/88), and always though about using
> the segmented rather than unsegmented device.
> 
> The following has a bit more info about the version of System III
> ported to their boxes:
> 
> https://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/onyx/c8002/UNIX_3.0.3_Software_Release_Notice_May83.pdf
> 
> DF

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-03-16 22:09 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 29+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-01-21 17:52 [TUHS] Unix on Zilog Z8000? Jon Forrest
2020-01-21 18:13 ` Steve Nickolas
2020-01-21 18:27   ` William Pechter
2020-01-21 18:15 ` Henry Bent
2020-01-21 18:20   ` Larry McVoy
2020-01-21 21:48     ` Nigel Williams
2020-01-21 22:00       ` Henry Bent
2020-01-21 22:36         ` Derek Fawcus
2020-01-21 22:35     ` Jason Stevens
2020-03-15 18:40       ` Cornelius Keck
2020-03-16  0:28         ` Wesley Parish
2020-03-16 22:02           ` Derek Fawcus
2020-01-21 18:32   ` William Pechter
2020-01-21 21:24   ` Jon Forrest
2020-01-21 18:28 ` Clem Cole
2020-01-21 21:07   ` Heinz Lycklama
2020-01-21 21:32   ` [TUHS] Onyx (was Re: Unix on Zilog Z8000?) Derek Fawcus
2020-01-22  8:18   ` [TUHS] Unix on Zilog Z8000? Arrigo Triulzi
2020-01-22 17:00 ` Mary Ann Horton
2020-01-22 21:04   ` [TUHS] Life at UC Berkeley (was Unix on Zilog Z8000?) Jon Forrest
2020-01-23  2:08   ` [TUHS] Unix on Zilog Z8000? Erik Fair
2020-01-22 19:55 ` Andreas Hein
2020-01-23 12:01   ` Oliver Lehmann
2020-01-25  1:46     ` [TUHS] Dhrystone Benchmark (was: Unix on Zilog Z8000?) Oliver Lehmann
2020-01-25  1:49       ` Oliver Lehmann
2020-01-25  2:29         ` Warner Losh
2020-01-22 10:56 [TUHS] Unix on Zilog Z8000? Paul Ruizendaal
2020-01-22 13:14 Paul Ruizendaal
2020-01-22 15:14 ` Clem Cole

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