From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 596b8830 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2020 21:06:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 55CDD9CC0B; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 07:06:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 181419CC09; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 07:06:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CFEA99CC08; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 07:05:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: from viclamta17p.bpe.bigpond.com (viclamta17p.bpe.bigpond.com [203.38.21.81]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEA769CC07 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 07:05:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: from smtp.telstra.com ([10.10.26.4]) by viclafep17p-svc.bpe.nexus.telstra.com.au with ESMTP id <20200204210556.HDHS6026.viclafep17p-svc.bpe.nexus.telstra.com.au@smtp.telstra.com> for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 08:05:56 +1100 X-RG-Spam: Unknown X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrgeelgddugeduucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuuffpveftpgfvgffnuffvtfetpdfqfgfvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucegtddtnecunecujfgurhepfffhvffujgfkfhgfgggtsehttddttddtredvnecuhfhrohhmpeffrghvvgcujfhorhhsfhgrlhhluceouggrvhgvsehhohhrshhfrghllhdrohhrgheqnecukfhppeduuddtrddugedurdduleefrddvfeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehhvghloheprghnvghurhhinhdrhhhorhhsfhgrlhhlrdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepuddutddrudeguddrudelfedrvdeffedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeouggrvhgvsehhohhrshhfrghllhdrohhrgheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoehtuhhhshesthhuhhhsrdhorhhgqe X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 0 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RG-VS-CLASS: clean Received: from aneurin.horsfall.org (110.141.193.233) by smtp.telstra.com (5.8.418) id 5E00C71E071BA807 for tuhs@tuhs.org; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 08:05:56 +1100 Received: from aneurin.horsfall.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aneurin.horsfall.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 014L5tIt056978 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 08:05:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave@horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by aneurin.horsfall.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 014L5tfC056975 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2020 08:05:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave@horsfall.org) X-Authentication-Warning: aneurin.horsfall.org: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 08:05:55 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-Reply-To: <20200204201453.ebeaabon26vbgfle@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: References: <9c507ef665851fd21ecdf0e23136dc86@firemail.de> <1ippPk-8PE-00@marmaro.de> <1iqMuL-1zK-00@marmaro.de> <20200204094018.661e76717f7f475e6cb53e75@sjmulder.nl> <20200204201453.ebeaabon26vbgfle@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.9999 (BSF 287 2018-06-16) X-GPG-Public-Key: http://www.horsfall.org/gpgkey.pub X-GPG-Fingerprint: 05B4 FFBC 0218 B438 66E0 587B EF46 7357 EF5E F58B X-Home-Page: http://www.horsfall.org/ X-Witty-Saying: "chmod 666 the_mode_of_the_beast" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [TUHS] pronouncing *nix formulas (was: screen editors) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Wed, 5 Feb 2020, G. Branden Robinson wrote: >>> Wikipedia writes that `ed' would be pronounced ``ee-dee'' (like >>> ``vee-eye''), is that what you english speakers do? > > Certainly not. When one sees a command name that duplicates a > frequently-used diminituve of a common name, the brain is going to > select that preferentially. Being British/Australian, I say "ee-dee" and "vee-eye", as they are not really English words. Similarly, I say "ee-max" etc. > Naming your Unix command "mike" and expecting people to pronounce it > "em-eye-kay-ee" is hopeless. In that case I would pronounce it as "myke". > In English, thanks to the Great Vowel Shift and other developments that > differentiated vowel pronunciation from the continent a few hundred > years ago, trailing "I"s tend to be pronounced long (as in "eye")--but > they also tend to be rare. They occur in proper names like Lodi, > California and Bondi, Australia (which Americans sometimes mis-pronounce > anyway, perhaps influenced by Spanish). A word that looks borrowed from > Latin, Greek, or Spanish will often get back its "-ee" sound for a > trailing "i", but the two-letter command names beloved of the Unix > pioneers offer no etymological hints. You should hear Americans pronounce the Australian cities of Brisbane and Melbourne. Also, Wagga Wagga totally throws them (it's pronounced simly as "Wogguh" here). > I had to teach myself Unix in the early days and so I wound up with some > idiolectal variants that people consider amusing or objectionable: OK... > chroot: cheroot (like the cigar) > chown: rhymes with "clown" > chmod: rhymes with "god" or "scrod" (a kind of fish), and resists the > introduction of a vowel into the leading consonant cluster as > much as possible--it's an ugly one! OK so far... > creat: Crete (hic Rhodus, hic salta!) cree-AT. > fuser: fuser (like the component of a laser printer--not "eff-user"; eff > that) eff-user, so take that :-) > groff: Groff (like the surname, not "jee-roff") jee-roff. > troff: trough (but nroff I pronounce the accepted way) tee-roff. And, err, how would you pronounce "nroff"? > (And did people really say "dee-eye-tee-roff" for "ditroff"?) Likely "dee-eye-troff". > There are a couple of others that I started out pronouncing in a > nonstandard way, but once I started attending conferences, I > assimilated: > > Linux: originally "lye-nucks", now "linn-ucks" Lee-nux. > Debian: originally "Dee-bee-un", now "Deb-ee-un" du-BEE-un. -- Dave