From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RDNS_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: (qmail 13221 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2020 05:22:35 -0000 Received-SPF: pass (minnie.tuhs.org: domain of minnie.tuhs.org designates 45.79.103.53 as permitted sender) receiver=inbox.vuxu.org; client-ip=45.79.103.53 envelope-from= Received: from unknown (HELO minnie.tuhs.org) (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTP; 12 Mar 2020 05:22:35 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 911379BD96; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 15:22:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ED3C9BB47; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 15:22:10 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A5FBA9BB47; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 15:22:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from viclamta10p.bpe.bigpond.com (viclamta10p.bpe.bigpond.com [203.38.21.74]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 230B59BB46 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 15:22:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from smtp.telstra.com ([10.10.26.4]) by viclafep10p-svc.bpe.nexus.telstra.com.au with ESMTP id <20200312052202.UYBF2045.viclafep10p-svc.bpe.nexus.telstra.com.au@smtp.telstra.com> for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 16:22:02 +1100 X-RG-Spam: Unknown X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedruddvgedgleegucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuuffpveftpgfvgffnuffvtfetpdfqfgfvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucegtddtnecunecujfgurhepfffhvffujgfkfhgfgggtsehttddttddtredvnecuhfhrohhmpeffrghvvgcujfhorhhsfhgrlhhluceouggrvhgvsehhohhrshhfrghllhdrohhrgheqnecukfhppeduuddtrddugedurdduleefrddvfeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehhvghloheprghnvghurhhinhdrhhhorhhsfhgrlhhlrdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepuddutddrudeguddrudelfedrvdeffedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeouggrvhgvsehhohhrshhfrghllhdrohhrgheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoehtuhhhshesthhuhhhsrdhorhhgqe X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 0 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RG-VS-CLASS: clean Received: from aneurin.horsfall.org (110.141.193.233) by smtp.telstra.com (5.8.418) id 5E00C71E0E0305CA for tuhs@tuhs.org; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 16:22:02 +1100 Received: from aneurin.horsfall.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aneurin.horsfall.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 02C5M1J7082116 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 16:22:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave@horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by aneurin.horsfall.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 02C5M10g082113 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 16:22:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave@horsfall.org) X-Authentication-Warning: aneurin.horsfall.org: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 16:22:01 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-Reply-To: <20200311225638.GG89512@eureka.lemis.com> Message-ID: References: <202003031815.023IFSlD493028@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20200311225638.GG89512@eureka.lemis.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.9999 (BSF 287 2018-06-16) X-GPG-Public-Key: http://www.horsfall.org/gpgkey.pub X-GPG-Fingerprint: 05B4 FFBC 0218 B438 66E0 587B EF46 7357 EF5E F58B X-Home-Page: http://www.horsfall.org/ X-Witty-Saying: "chmod 666 the_mode_of_the_beast" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [TUHS] Command line options and complexity X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Thu, 12 Mar 2020, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > A good example. But you're not removing options, you're just redefining > them. In fact I find the -h option particularly emetic, so a better > choice in removing options would be to remove -h and use a filter to > mutilate the sizes: > > $ ls -l | humanize I also had something like that in mind, except being British/Australian I'd spell it with an "s" :-) > But that's a pain, isn't it? That's why there's a -h option for people > who like it. Note that you can't do it the other way round: you can't > get the exact size from -h output. Which is why I suggested there be a means to turn it off; I'm becoming a fan of environment variables to modify the standard behaviour of tools (but I loathe the Penguin/OS default to use colours). > And then there's the question why you don't like the standard output. > Because the number strings are too long and difficult to read, maybe? > That's the rationale for the -, option. More than likely; as I approach age 68 I notice that I'm losing some cognitive facility... I might start using "," and see if I like it, but I see that the Mac doesn't have it (my Penguin is off the air at the moment), and having it as an environment variable would be nice. >> Quickly now, without looking: which option shows unprintable >> characters in a filename? Unless you use it regularly (in which >> case you have real problems) you would have to look it up; I find >> that "ls ... | od -bc" to be quicker, especially on filenames with >> trailing blanks etc (which "-B" won't show). > > This is arguably a bug in the -B option. I certainly don't think the > pipe notation is quicker. But it's nice to have both alternatives. Agreed; as for the bug I think it comes down to what is meant by an unprintable character. I certainly remember finding "hidden" set-uid shells with the name of ".. " etc back when I was going after the UNSW kiddies with an axe back in the late 70s... -- Dave