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* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
@ 2020-04-19 14:35 Norman Wilson
  2020-04-19 15:59 ` Daniel Camoles
  2020-04-19 23:42 ` A. P. Garcia
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Norman Wilson @ 2020-04-19 14:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

I asked a friend who was around at the time (I think he and
Rob worked together at times).  Here's what he recalls:

  I'll keep it going.  rc was a description that it was the worst movie
  ever.  And was for many years listed as the worst system ever (except
  for all the others) in a mish-mash of creative naming...  I have no clue
  if this is true, and I'm honestly having trouble recalling his name.
  It wasn't my intention.

  There was a description that it was a startup script from very early
  times in Unix, shortened, as Ken was wont to do, from runcom, the nearest
  thing CTSS had to a shell--it could run up to six prespecified commands
  in background.  It wasn't a 'big name' like Evi, but I don't know if I buy
  it, that plan 9 from outer space poster hanging.  Plan 9 from Bell Labs
  as all these themes flowed together in a mish-mash of creative naming...
  With a different name, it could be the lack of information, those who
  guess at reasons for naming generate volumes of apocrypha.

  The real reason is usually, ``because''.* Trust me, there are even
  worse movies...  Someone posted some pictures of the names tell you
  anything helpful. Despite the lack of televised sports getting to me
  in these shelter-in-place days, but, I mean, sure, I guess I'll throw
  in some bucks for a pay-per-view of a Pike/Thompson cage match.  FIGHT!
  Followups set.

  Things are named usually because the name is "Plan 9 from outer space
  poster hanging.  None of the office area at Murray Hill to this list.
  Plan 9 is the worst system ever (except for all the others) in a
  knod to Churchill (supposedly based on his comment about Democracy).
  And from there it was 25 years ago and beer was involved).  It makes
  a great story, but I don't think there's much doubt about it.  And was
  for many years listed as the worst movie ever, including the formative
  years of plan 9.  Yes, but is there anything besides the name?  There is
  a widespred anecdote that "Plan 9" name comes from the movie until the
  end (what a pain!).

  _-_-_-_-Mark

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-19 14:35 [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ? Norman Wilson
@ 2020-04-19 15:59 ` Daniel Camoles
  2020-04-19 22:19   ` Rob Pike
  2020-04-19 23:42 ` A. P. Garcia
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Camoles @ 2020-04-19 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eunuchs Society

I’m surprised no one mentioned the Brazil movie so far, and rio named from that. I seem to remember that before being called Plan 9 it was called Brazil because of the movie. Did I dream that?

> Em 19 de abr de 2020, à(s) 11:37, Norman Wilson <norman@oclsc.org> escreveu:
> 
> I asked a friend who was around at the time (I think he and
> Rob worked together at times).  Here's what he recalls:
> 
>  I'll keep it going.  rc was a description that it was the worst movie
>  ever.  And was for many years listed as the worst system ever (except
>  for all the others) in a mish-mash of creative naming...  I have no clue
>  if this is true, and I'm honestly having trouble recalling his name.
>  It wasn't my intention.
> 
>  There was a description that it was a startup script from very early
>  times in Unix, shortened, as Ken was wont to do, from runcom, the nearest
>  thing CTSS had to a shell--it could run up to six prespecified commands
>  in background.  It wasn't a 'big name' like Evi, but I don't know if I buy
>  it, that plan 9 from outer space poster hanging.  Plan 9 from Bell Labs
>  as all these themes flowed together in a mish-mash of creative naming...
>  With a different name, it could be the lack of information, those who
>  guess at reasons for naming generate volumes of apocrypha.
> 
>  The real reason is usually, ``because''.* Trust me, there are even
>  worse movies...  Someone posted some pictures of the names tell you
>  anything helpful. Despite the lack of televised sports getting to me
>  in these shelter-in-place days, but, I mean, sure, I guess I'll throw
>  in some bucks for a pay-per-view of a Pike/Thompson cage match.  FIGHT!
>  Followups set.
> 
>  Things are named usually because the name is "Plan 9 from outer space
>  poster hanging.  None of the office area at Murray Hill to this list.
>  Plan 9 is the worst system ever (except for all the others) in a
>  knod to Churchill (supposedly based on his comment about Democracy).
>  And from there it was 25 years ago and beer was involved).  It makes
>  a great story, but I don't think there's much doubt about it.  And was
>  for many years listed as the worst movie ever, including the formative
>  years of plan 9.  Yes, but is there anything besides the name?  There is
>  a widespred anecdote that "Plan 9" name comes from the movie until the
>  end (what a pain!).
> 
>  _-_-_-_-Mark
> 
> Norman Wilson
> Toronto ON


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-19 15:59 ` Daniel Camoles
@ 2020-04-19 22:19   ` Rob Pike
  2020-04-20  7:42     ` arnold
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2020-04-19 22:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Daniel Camoles; +Cc: Eunuchs Society

Rio is a reference to a different movie, not to Brazil. Brazil is a
reference to Brazil. Hope that helps.

-rob

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:07 AM Daniel Camoles <bigato@bus142.net> wrote:
>
> I’m surprised no one mentioned the Brazil movie so far, and rio named from that. I seem to remember that before being called Plan 9 it was called Brazil because of the movie. Did I dream that?
>
> > Em 19 de abr de 2020, à(s) 11:37, Norman Wilson <norman@oclsc.org> escreveu:
> >
> > I asked a friend who was around at the time (I think he and
> > Rob worked together at times).  Here's what he recalls:
> >
> >  I'll keep it going.  rc was a description that it was the worst movie
> >  ever.  And was for many years listed as the worst system ever (except
> >  for all the others) in a mish-mash of creative naming...  I have no clue
> >  if this is true, and I'm honestly having trouble recalling his name.
> >  It wasn't my intention.
> >
> >  There was a description that it was a startup script from very early
> >  times in Unix, shortened, as Ken was wont to do, from runcom, the nearest
> >  thing CTSS had to a shell--it could run up to six prespecified commands
> >  in background.  It wasn't a 'big name' like Evi, but I don't know if I buy
> >  it, that plan 9 from outer space poster hanging.  Plan 9 from Bell Labs
> >  as all these themes flowed together in a mish-mash of creative naming...
> >  With a different name, it could be the lack of information, those who
> >  guess at reasons for naming generate volumes of apocrypha.
> >
> >  The real reason is usually, ``because''.* Trust me, there are even
> >  worse movies...  Someone posted some pictures of the names tell you
> >  anything helpful. Despite the lack of televised sports getting to me
> >  in these shelter-in-place days, but, I mean, sure, I guess I'll throw
> >  in some bucks for a pay-per-view of a Pike/Thompson cage match.  FIGHT!
> >  Followups set.
> >
> >  Things are named usually because the name is "Plan 9 from outer space
> >  poster hanging.  None of the office area at Murray Hill to this list.
> >  Plan 9 is the worst system ever (except for all the others) in a
> >  knod to Churchill (supposedly based on his comment about Democracy).
> >  And from there it was 25 years ago and beer was involved).  It makes
> >  a great story, but I don't think there's much doubt about it.  And was
> >  for many years listed as the worst movie ever, including the formative
> >  years of plan 9.  Yes, but is there anything besides the name?  There is
> >  a widespred anecdote that "Plan 9" name comes from the movie until the
> >  end (what a pain!).
> >
> >  _-_-_-_-Mark
> >
> > Norman Wilson
> > Toronto ON
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-19 14:35 [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ? Norman Wilson
  2020-04-19 15:59 ` Daniel Camoles
@ 2020-04-19 23:42 ` A. P. Garcia
  2020-04-20  2:27   ` Michael Usher via TUHS
  2020-04-24 20:55   ` Dave Horsfall
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: A. P. Garcia @ 2020-04-19 23:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Norman Wilson; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:37 AM Norman Wilson <norman@oclsc.org> wrote:

> I asked a friend who was around at the time (I think he and
> Rob worked together at times).  Here's what he recalls:
>
>   I'll keep it going.  rc was a description that it was the worst movie
>   ever.  And was for many years listed as the worst system ever (except
>   for all the others) in a mish-mash of creative naming...
>
<snip>

>   _-_-_-_-Mark


Mark V Chaney!

>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-19 23:42 ` A. P. Garcia
@ 2020-04-20  2:27   ` Michael Usher via TUHS
  2020-04-20  2:50     ` Rob Pike
  2020-04-24 20:55   ` Dave Horsfall
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Michael Usher via TUHS @ 2020-04-20  2:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: A. P. Garcia; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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I think this reflects a very static view of hermeneutics.  Just because a
term "meant" something at the time of its first use, doesn't mean that one
should ignore all of the modification of that meaning subsequently.
Language is truly a virus of a type that evolves over time as it is
adjusted by its tree of hosts.

I think you can separate the initial intent of a label from its current
usage.

I wonder what mvs would have said to that.  Didn't he read sci.philosophy
at one point?

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* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-20  2:27   ` Michael Usher via TUHS
@ 2020-04-20  2:50     ` Rob Pike
  2020-04-20  3:08       ` George Michaelson
  2020-04-20  4:39       ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2020-04-20  2:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Usher; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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A name that refers to something does not imply some form of metempsychosis.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

-rob

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-20  2:50     ` Rob Pike
@ 2020-04-20  3:08       ` George Michaelson
  2020-04-20  4:39       ` Warner Losh
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: George Michaelson @ 2020-04-20  3:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but "ceci, n'est pas un pipe" is
also true: just because you called it a cigar, doesn't mean it can't
be a fish.

The version I heard once, was "hitch the wagon to the engine and see
what entrains" where every one of hitch, wagon, engine, entrain does
not refer in any way to railways, or even "wagons" if its shakespeare.

It is not very useful to try and have a conversation about anything
EXCEPT the mutability of words, if you don't actually agree what the
words mean in context. I think this may be why Haskell draws a
distinction between things of type Integer and the specific intent
behind "int" and I could be drawn to say the whole 8/16/32/64/128
problem inherent in (unsigned (long) ) int is kind-of more of a
problem than not.  If we'd selected IPv6 as 64 bit quantities then
because at the time the 32/64 division of intent was mostly ok, we'd
be good. We went to 128: GCC (sorry) doesn't handle unsigned 128 bit
quantities well. A problem ensues.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:50 PM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A name that refers to something does not imply some form of metempsychosis. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
>
> -rob
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-20  2:50     ` Rob Pike
  2020-04-20  3:08       ` George Michaelson
@ 2020-04-20  4:39       ` Warner Losh
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2020-04-20  4:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rob Pike; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 8:50 PM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:

> A name that refers to something does not imply some form of
> metempsychosis. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
>


"We named stuff for a combination of movies we were into, inside jokes and
occasionally after repurposed historical names for new animals." Don't
overthink it.

Warner

>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-19 22:19   ` Rob Pike
@ 2020-04-20  7:42     ` arnold
  2020-04-20 17:35       ` Christopher Browne
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2020-04-20  7:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: robpike, bigato; +Cc: tuhs

Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:

> Rio is a reference to a different movie, not to Brazil. Brazil is a
> reference to Brazil. Hope that helps.
>
> -rob

What movie is Rio a reference to?

Thanks,

Arnold

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-20  7:42     ` arnold
@ 2020-04-20 17:35       ` Christopher Browne
  2020-04-20 20:49         ` Rob Pike
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Browne @ 2020-04-20 17:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: arnold; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 03:43, <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:

> Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Rio is a reference to a different movie, not to Brazil. Brazil is a
> > reference to Brazil. Hope that helps.
> >
> > -rob
>
> What movie is Rio a reference to?
>

I imagine there's some bad romantic comedy movie starring Michael Caine to
Blame It On...

Timing seems about right.
-- 
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-20 17:35       ` Christopher Browne
@ 2020-04-20 20:49         ` Rob Pike
  2020-04-23 15:33           ` Álvaro Jurado
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2020-04-20 20:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Christopher Browne; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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No, that's not it. You have the wrong actor. The right one appears in the
rio source.

-rob


On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 3:37 AM Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 03:43, <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
>
>> Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Rio is a reference to a different movie, not to Brazil. Brazil is a
>> > reference to Brazil. Hope that helps.
>> >
>> > -rob
>>
>> What movie is Rio a reference to?
>>
>
> I imagine there's some bad romantic comedy movie starring Michael Caine to
> Blame It On...
>
> Timing seems about right.
> --
> When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
> question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-20 20:49         ` Rob Pike
@ 2020-04-23 15:33           ` Álvaro Jurado
  2020-04-23 17:10             ` Richard Salz
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Álvaro Jurado @ 2020-04-23 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rob Pike; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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:-D

/*
 *  WASHINGTON (AP) - The Food and Drug Administration warned
 * consumers Wednesday not to use ``Rio'' hair relaxer products
 * because they may cause severe hair loss or turn hair green....
 *    The FDA urged consumers who have experienced problems with Rio
 * to notify their local FDA office, local health department or the
 * company at 1‑800‑543‑3002.
 */

sys/src/cmd/rio/rio.c

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_Hair_Naturalizer_System


On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 22:50, Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:

> No, that's not it. You have the wrong actor. The right one appears in the
> rio source.
>
> -rob
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 3:37 AM Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 03:43, <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Rio is a reference to a different movie, not to Brazil. Brazil is a
>>> > reference to Brazil. Hope that helps.
>>> >
>>> > -rob
>>>
>>> What movie is Rio a reference to?
>>>
>>
>> I imagine there's some bad romantic comedy movie starring Michael Caine
>> to Blame It On...
>>
>> Timing seems about right.
>> --
>> When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
>> question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
>>
> --
Álvaro

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-23 15:33           ` Álvaro Jurado
@ 2020-04-23 17:10             ` Richard Salz
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Richard Salz @ 2020-04-23 17:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Álvaro Jurado; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Rio the movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_(2011_film)

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-19 23:42 ` A. P. Garcia
  2020-04-20  2:27   ` Michael Usher via TUHS
@ 2020-04-24 20:55   ` Dave Horsfall
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2020-04-24 20:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

[ Catching up on old email ]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020, A. P. Garcia wrote:

> Mark V Chaney!

Shaney.  I know the culprit(s) behind it...

-- Dave

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
@ 2020-04-19  3:09 Doug McIlroy
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Doug McIlroy @ 2020-04-19  3:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

I'll keep it going. rc was a startup script from very early
times in Unix, shortened, as Ken was wont to do, from runcom,
the nearest thing CTSS had to a shell--it could run up to
six prespecified commands in background. The name runcom
came to be applied to the scripts as well as to their
interpreter.

Doug

-------------------------------------


It wasn't my intention.

-rob

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 11:12 AM Ken Thompson <ken@google.com> wrote:
>
> rob,
> you shouldn't have shut down this discussion.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-19  1:28           ` Rob Pike
@ 2020-04-19  2:51             ` Adam Thornton
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thornton @ 2020-04-19  2:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Computer Old Farts Followers

So it could be the lack of televised sports getting to me in these shelter-in-place days, but, I mean, sure, I guess I’ll throw in some bucks for a pay-per-view of a Pike/Thompson cage match.  FIGHT!

Followups set.

> On Apr 18, 2020, at 6:28 PM, Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
> It wasn't my intention.
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 11:12 AM Ken Thompson <ken@google.com> wrote:
>> 
>> you shouldn't have shut down this discussion.
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 3:27 PM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  ``because''.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
       [not found]         ` <CAG=a+rgFs6ZB9X7H=hZnP4thm4r0xP_2c-apfeOEbM936zXkaA@mail.gmail.com>
@ 2020-04-19  1:28           ` Rob Pike
  2020-04-19  2:51             ` Adam Thornton
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2020-04-19  1:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ken Thompson, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

It wasn't my intention.

-rob

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 11:12 AM Ken Thompson <ken@google.com> wrote:
>
> rob,
> you shouldn't have shut down this discussion.
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 3:27 PM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> As it says there,
>>
>> The hermeneutics of naming yields few insights. Things are named usually because the name is nice (sam), or there is some private reference hard to decode (8½), or in honour (perhaps backhanded) of another system (mothra), or an indication of expectation (Plan 9, acme), or just because (acid). None of the names tell you anything helpful.
>>
>> Despite the lack of information, those who guess at reasons for naming generate volumes of apocrypha. The real reason is usually, ``because''.
>>
>> -rob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 3:50 AM Royce Williams <royce@techsolvency.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 9:45 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 11:24 AM Pierre DAVID <pdagog@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 06:20:18PM +0100, Richard Tobin wrote:
>>>>> >> There is a widespred anecdote that "Plan 9" name comes from the
>>>>> >> movie "Plan 9 From Outer Space".
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Given that the full name is "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" I don't think
>>>>> >there's much doubt about it.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, but is there anything besides the name?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Plan 9 is the worst movie ever. And was for many years listed as the worst movie ever, including the formative years of plan 9.
>>>>
>>>> A professor(?) at CU once told me, though I don't know if I buy it, that plan 9 was Unix Plan B at first. There was a description that it was the worst system ever (except for all the others) in a knod to Churchill (supposedly based on his comment about Democracy). And from there it was a quick jump to Plan 9 from Bell Labs as all these themes flowed together in a mish-mash of creative naming...  With a different name, it could break with Unix in interesting ways...
>>>>
>>>> I have no clue if this is true, and I'm no longer in contact with the professor that told me this since it was mid to late 90s, and I'm honestly having trouble recalling his name. It wasn't a 'big name' like Evi, but I think it was someone at CU I had a beer with (which means it could have been a grad student to post-doc as well, it was 25 years ago and beer was involved). It makes a great story, but I don't know if it's anything more than that. I put it out there because I know Rob or Ken is likely to correct something that's this detailed and specific if it's really wrong :)
>>>
>>>
>>> See also:
>>>
>>> http://9p.io/wiki/plan9/lfaq/index.html#GENERAL_INFORMATION
>>>
>>> Royce

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-18 17:49     ` Royce Williams
@ 2020-04-18 22:26       ` Rob Pike
       [not found]         ` <CAG=a+rgFs6ZB9X7H=hZnP4thm4r0xP_2c-apfeOEbM936zXkaA@mail.gmail.com>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2020-04-18 22:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Royce Williams; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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As it says there,



*The hermeneutics of naming yields few insights. Things are named usually
because the name is nice (sam), or there is some private reference hard to
decode (8½), or in honour (perhaps backhanded) of another system (mothra),
or an indication of expectation (Plan 9, acme), or just because (acid).
None of the names tell you anything helpful.Despite the lack of
information, those who guess at reasons for naming generate volumes of
apocrypha. The real reason is usually, ``because''.*

-rob



On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 3:50 AM Royce Williams <royce@techsolvency.com>
wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 9:45 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 11:24 AM Pierre DAVID <pdagog@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 06:20:18PM +0100, Richard Tobin wrote:
>>> >> There is a widespred anecdote that "Plan 9" name comes from the
>>> >> movie "Plan 9 From Outer Space".
>>> >
>>> >Given that the full name is "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" I don't think
>>> >there's much doubt about it.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Yes, but is there anything besides the name?
>>>
>>
>> Plan 9 is the worst movie ever. And was for many years listed as the
>> worst movie ever, including the formative years of plan 9.
>>
>> A professor(?) at CU once told me, though I don't know if I buy it, that
>> plan 9 was Unix Plan B at first. There was a description that it was the
>> worst system ever (except for all the others) in a knod to Churchill
>> (supposedly based on his comment about Democracy). And from there it was a
>> quick jump to Plan 9 from Bell Labs as all these themes flowed together in
>> a mish-mash of creative naming...  With a different name, it could break
>> with Unix in interesting ways...
>>
>> I have no clue if this is true, and I'm no longer in contact with the
>> professor that told me this since it was mid to late 90s, and I'm honestly
>> having trouble recalling his name. It wasn't a 'big name' like Evi, but I
>> think it was someone at CU I had a beer with (which means it could have
>> been a grad student to post-doc as well, it was 25 years ago and beer was
>> involved). It makes a great story, but I don't know if it's anything more
>> than that. I put it out there because I know Rob or Ken is likely to
>> correct something that's this detailed and specific if it's really wrong :)
>>
>
> See also:
>
> http://9p.io/wiki/plan9/lfaq/index.html#GENERAL_INFORMATION
>
> Royce
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-18 16:57 Pierre DAVID
  2020-04-18 18:40 ` A. P. Garcia
@ 2020-04-18 21:38 ` Dave Horsfall
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2020-04-18 21:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020, Pierre DAVID wrote:

> Since I didn't find anything more than a reference to this anecdote (see 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs for example), I 
> forced myself to watch the movie until the end (what a pain!).

Trust me, there are even worse movies...  The colourised ones, for 
example, out of Hollywood (aarrgghh!).

(Follow-ups to COFF, of course)

-- Dave, who thinks that the best films were early B&W ones

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-18 16:57 Pierre DAVID
@ 2020-04-18 18:40 ` A. P. Garcia
  2020-04-18 21:38 ` Dave Horsfall
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: A. P. Garcia @ 2020-04-18 18:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pierre DAVID; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 725 bytes --]

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 12:58 PM Pierre DAVID <pdagog@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is a widespred anecdote that "Plan 9" name comes from the
> movie "Plan 9 From Outer Space".
>
> Since I didn't find anything more than a reference to this
> anecdote (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs
> for example), I forced myself to watch the movie until the end
> (what a pain!).
>
> Guess what? I couldn't find the link between the film and the
> beloved OS.
>
> I'm sure there are people here who know more. Thanks in advance
> for sharing your knowledge with us.
>
> Pierre
>

Someone posted some pictures of the office area at Murray Hill to this
list. I seem to recall A plan 9 from outer space poster hanging.

>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-18 17:44   ` Warner Losh
@ 2020-04-18 17:49     ` Royce Williams
  2020-04-18 22:26       ` Rob Pike
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Royce Williams @ 2020-04-18 17:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1793 bytes --]

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 9:45 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 11:24 AM Pierre DAVID <pdagog@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 06:20:18PM +0100, Richard Tobin wrote:
>> >> There is a widespred anecdote that "Plan 9" name comes from the
>> >> movie "Plan 9 From Outer Space".
>> >
>> >Given that the full name is "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" I don't think
>> >there's much doubt about it.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, but is there anything besides the name?
>>
>
> Plan 9 is the worst movie ever. And was for many years listed as the worst
> movie ever, including the formative years of plan 9.
>
> A professor(?) at CU once told me, though I don't know if I buy it, that
> plan 9 was Unix Plan B at first. There was a description that it was the
> worst system ever (except for all the others) in a knod to Churchill
> (supposedly based on his comment about Democracy). And from there it was a
> quick jump to Plan 9 from Bell Labs as all these themes flowed together in
> a mish-mash of creative naming...  With a different name, it could break
> with Unix in interesting ways...
>
> I have no clue if this is true, and I'm no longer in contact with the
> professor that told me this since it was mid to late 90s, and I'm honestly
> having trouble recalling his name. It wasn't a 'big name' like Evi, but I
> think it was someone at CU I had a beer with (which means it could have
> been a grad student to post-doc as well, it was 25 years ago and beer was
> involved). It makes a great story, but I don't know if it's anything more
> than that. I put it out there because I know Rob or Ken is likely to
> correct something that's this detailed and specific if it's really wrong :)
>

See also:

http://9p.io/wiki/plan9/lfaq/index.html#GENERAL_INFORMATION

Royce

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-18 17:23 ` Pierre DAVID
@ 2020-04-18 17:44   ` Warner Losh
  2020-04-18 17:49     ` Royce Williams
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2020-04-18 17:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pierre DAVID; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1599 bytes --]

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 11:24 AM Pierre DAVID <pdagog@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 06:20:18PM +0100, Richard Tobin wrote:
> >> There is a widespred anecdote that "Plan 9" name comes from the
> >> movie "Plan 9 From Outer Space".
> >
> >Given that the full name is "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" I don't think
> >there's much doubt about it.
> >
>
> Yes, but is there anything besides the name?
>

Plan 9 is the worst movie ever. And was for many years listed as the worst
movie ever, including the formative years of plan 9.

A professor(?) at CU once told me, though I don't know if I buy it, that
plan 9 was Unix Plan B at first. There was a description that it was the
worst system ever (except for all the others) in a knod to Churchill
(supposedly based on his comment about Democracy). And from there it was a
quick jump to Plan 9 from Bell Labs as all these themes flowed together in
a mish-mash of creative naming...  With a different name, it could break
with Unix in interesting ways...

I have no clue if this is true, and I'm no longer in contact with the
professor that told me this since it was mid to late 90s, and I'm honestly
having trouble recalling his name. It wasn't a 'big name' like Evi, but I
think it was someone at CU I had a beer with (which means it could have
been a grad student to post-doc as well, it was 25 years ago and beer was
involved). It makes a great story, but I don't know if it's anything more
than that. I put it out there because I know Rob or Ken is likely to
correct something that's this detailed and specific if it's really wrong :)

Warner

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
  2020-04-18 17:20 Richard Tobin
@ 2020-04-18 17:23 ` Pierre DAVID
  2020-04-18 17:44   ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Pierre DAVID @ 2020-04-18 17:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Tobin; +Cc: tuhs

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 06:20:18PM +0100, Richard Tobin wrote:
>> There is a widespred anecdote that "Plan 9" name comes from the
>> movie "Plan 9 From Outer Space".
>
>Given that the full name is "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" I don't think
>there's much doubt about it.
>

Yes, but is there anything besides the name?

Pierre

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
@ 2020-04-18 17:20 Richard Tobin
  2020-04-18 17:23 ` Pierre DAVID
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Richard Tobin @ 2020-04-18 17:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pierre DAVID, tuhs

> There is a widespred anecdote that "Plan 9" name comes from the 
> movie "Plan 9 From Outer Space".

Given that the full name is "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" I don't think
there's much doubt about it.

-- Richard

-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ?
@ 2020-04-18 16:57 Pierre DAVID
  2020-04-18 18:40 ` A. P. Garcia
  2020-04-18 21:38 ` Dave Horsfall
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Pierre DAVID @ 2020-04-18 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

There is a widespred anecdote that "Plan 9" name comes from the 
movie "Plan 9 From Outer Space".

Since I didn't find anything more than a reference to this 
anecdote (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs 
for example), I forced myself to watch the movie until the end 
(what a pain!).

Guess what? I couldn't find the link between the film and the 
beloved OS.

I'm sure there are people here who know more. Thanks in advance 
for sharing your knowledge with us.

Pierre

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-04-24 20:56 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 25+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-04-19 14:35 [TUHS] Plan 9 from outer space ? Norman Wilson
2020-04-19 15:59 ` Daniel Camoles
2020-04-19 22:19   ` Rob Pike
2020-04-20  7:42     ` arnold
2020-04-20 17:35       ` Christopher Browne
2020-04-20 20:49         ` Rob Pike
2020-04-23 15:33           ` Álvaro Jurado
2020-04-23 17:10             ` Richard Salz
2020-04-19 23:42 ` A. P. Garcia
2020-04-20  2:27   ` Michael Usher via TUHS
2020-04-20  2:50     ` Rob Pike
2020-04-20  3:08       ` George Michaelson
2020-04-20  4:39       ` Warner Losh
2020-04-24 20:55   ` Dave Horsfall
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-04-19  3:09 Doug McIlroy
2020-04-18 17:20 Richard Tobin
2020-04-18 17:23 ` Pierre DAVID
2020-04-18 17:44   ` Warner Losh
2020-04-18 17:49     ` Royce Williams
2020-04-18 22:26       ` Rob Pike
     [not found]         ` <CAG=a+rgFs6ZB9X7H=hZnP4thm4r0xP_2c-apfeOEbM936zXkaA@mail.gmail.com>
2020-04-19  1:28           ` Rob Pike
2020-04-19  2:51             ` Adam Thornton
2020-04-18 16:57 Pierre DAVID
2020-04-18 18:40 ` A. P. Garcia
2020-04-18 21:38 ` Dave Horsfall

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