From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 15809 invoked from network); 19 May 2020 07:42:13 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 May 2020 07:42:13 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 4B7D49C1EC; Tue, 19 May 2020 17:42:08 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97EEC9C1C6; Tue, 19 May 2020 17:41:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1707C9C178; Tue, 19 May 2020 17:41:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from viclamta31p.bpe.bigpond.com (viclamta31p.bpe.bigpond.com [203.38.21.95]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01E8D9C15F for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 17:41:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from smtp.telstra.com ([10.10.26.4]) by viclafep31p-svc.bpe.nexus.telstra.com.au with ESMTP id <20200519074134.BWNA31344.viclafep31p-svc.bpe.nexus.telstra.com.au@smtp.telstra.com> for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 17:41:34 +1000 X-RG-Spam: Unknown X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedruddtiedguddvtdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfupfevtfgpvffgnffuvffttedpqfgfvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecugedttdenucenucfjughrpeffhffvufgjkfhffgggtgesthdttddttdervdenucfhrhhomhepffgrvhgvucfjohhrshhfrghllhcuoegurghvvgeshhhorhhsfhgrlhhlrdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeekieetjeeuuefhfeeguedvudeifeevudfgvedtffekhfffjeekhfdutdetheethfenucfkphepuddutddrudeguddrudelfedrvdeffeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhephhgvlhhopegrnhgvuhhrihhnrdhhohhrshhfrghllhdrohhrghdpihhnvghtpeduuddtrddugedurdduleefrddvfeefpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoegurghvvgeshhhorhhsfhgrlhhlrdhorhhgqedprhgtphhtthhopeeothhuhhhssehtuhhhshdrohhrgheq X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 0 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RG-VS-CLASS: clean Received: from aneurin.horsfall.org (110.141.193.233) by smtp.telstra.com (5.8.420) id 5E8A564B0805EB9E for tuhs@tuhs.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 17:41:34 +1000 Received: from aneurin.horsfall.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aneurin.horsfall.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04J7fWl2055128 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 17:41:32 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dave@horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by aneurin.horsfall.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 04J7fWxo055125 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 17:41:32 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dave@horsfall.org) X-Authentication-Warning: aneurin.horsfall.org: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 17:41:31 +1000 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-Reply-To: <20200518084650.GA78465@server.rulingia.com> Message-ID: References: <20200515213138.8E0F72D2D71E@macaroni.inf.ed.ac.uk> <077a01d62b08$e696bee0$b3c43ca0$@ronnatalie.com> <20200515233427.31Vab%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <5DB09C5A-F5DA-4375-AAA5-0711FC6FB1D9@ronnatalie.com> <20200516232607.nLiIx%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <065a01d62c68$59b7d890$0d2789b0$@ronnatalie.com> <20200518084650.GA78465@server.rulingia.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.9999 (BSF 287 2018-06-16) X-GPG-Public-Key: http://www.horsfall.org/gpgkey.pub X-GPG-Fingerprint: 05B4 FFBC 0218 B438 66E0 587B EF46 7357 EF5E F58B X-Home-Page: http://www.horsfall.org/ X-Witty-Saying: "chmod 666 the_mode_of_the_beast" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 K&R C X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Mon, 18 May 2020, Peter Jeremy wrote: > 8-bit bytes, 32/64-bit "words" and 2's complement arithmetic have been > "standard" for so long that I suspect there are a significant number of > computing professionals who have never considered that there is any > alternative. You haven't lived until you've dealt with a 1's-complement machine i.e. -0 != 0 ... To be fair, it was *mostly* normalised. >> Yep, I think that is the real crux of the issue. If you grew up with >> systems that used a 5, 6, or even a 7-bit byte; you have an >> appreciation of the difference. > > I've used a 36-bit system that supported 6 or 9-bit bytes. IBM Stretch > even supported programmable character sizes. Ever tried a Univac or a Honeywell? I don't remember the exact details, and I prefer to keep it that way... > The Alpha was byte addressed, it just didn't support byte operations on > memory (at least originally). That's different to word-oriented > machines that only supported word addresses. Supporting byte-wide > writes at arbitrary addresses adds a chunk of complexity to the > CPU/cache interface and most RISC architectures only supported word > load/store operations. I had to support an old Alpha once; that was one of the reasons why I was happy to leave the joint. We had just one customer who used an Alpha, and thus we/I had to maintain the thing. And don't even ask me about HP-UX (just as well that they weren't called Packard-Hewlett), nor Xenix, nor early Slowaris, nor National Cash Registers, nor... Excuse me, I now have to take my sleepy pills :-) -- Dave