From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 14243 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2021 21:55:58 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Feb 2021 21:55:58 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 453EB9C094; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:55:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 926DA9BA45; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:55:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 60C1C9BA45; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:55:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from nsstlmta10p.bpe.bigpond.com (nsstlmta10p.bpe.bigpond.com [203.38.21.10]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24E329BA40 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:55:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from smtp.telstra.com ([10.10.24.4]) by nsstlfep10p-svc.bpe.nexus.telstra.com.au with ESMTP id <20210204215521.TMTV6549.nsstlfep10p-svc.bpe.nexus.telstra.com.au@smtp.telstra.com> for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:55:21 +1100 X-RG-Spam: Unknown X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrgeeggddugeeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuuffpveftpgfvgffnuffvtfetpdfqfgfvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucegtddtnecunecujfgurhepfffhvffujgfkfhgfgggtsehttddttddtredvnecuhfhrohhmpeffrghvvgcujfhorhhsfhgrlhhluceouggrvhgvsehhohhrshhfrghllhdrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepkeeiteejueeuhfefgeeuvdduieefvedugfevtdffkefhffejkefhuddtteehtefhnecukfhppeduuddtrddugedurdduleefrddvfeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehhvghloheprghnvghurhhinhdrhhhorhhsfhgrlhhlrdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepuddutddrudeguddrudelfedrvdeffedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeouggrvhgvsehhohhrshhfrghllhdrohhrgheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoehtuhhhshesthhuhhhsrdhorhhgqe X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 0 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RG-VS-CLASS: clean Received: from aneurin.horsfall.org (110.141.193.233) by smtp.telstra.com (5.8.420) id 5FE6CCD00B2C37EA for tuhs@tuhs.org; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:55:21 +1100 Received: from aneurin.horsfall.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aneurin.horsfall.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 114LtK6Y092902 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:55:20 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave@horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by aneurin.horsfall.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 114LtK6u092899 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:55:20 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave@horsfall.org) X-Authentication-Warning: aneurin.horsfall.org: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:55:19 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-Reply-To: <20210204013356.GA16541@mcvoy.com> Message-ID: References: <202102030759.1137x7C2013543@freefriends.org> <202102030858.1138wuqd011051@freefriends.org> <27567.1612399305@hop.toad.com> <20210204013356.GA16541@mcvoy.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.9999 (BSF 287 2018-06-16) X-GPG-Public-Key: http://www.horsfall.org/gpgkey.pub X-GPG-Fingerprint: 05B4 FFBC 0218 B438 66E0 587B EF46 7357 EF5E F58B X-Home-Page: http://www.horsfall.org/ X-Witty-Saying: "chmod 666 the_mode_of_the_beast" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [TUHS] 68k prototypes & microcode X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Wed, 3 Feb 2021, Larry McVoy wrote: >> The 68K always reminded me of the VAX. > > I'm not sure if that is a compliment or not. The 68K was fairly clean; the VAX not so much... I got the impression that it was designed by a committee i.e. everybody wanted to have their own instruction/feature, and it showed. I do admit though that paging the page tables was a stroke of genius. > The NS320XX always reminded me more of the PDP-11 (which is by *far* > my favorite assembler, so uniform, I had a TA that could read the octal > dump of a PDP-11 like it was C). I wasn't that good but I could sort of > see what he was seeing and I never saw that in the VAX. 68K was closer > but I felt like the NS320xx was closer yet. Pity they couldn't produce > bug free chips. I used to be a whiz on the 360 :-) As part of our final CompSci exams we had to hand-assemble and disassemble some code, and I hardly ever referred to the "green card". > Someone mentioned Z80000, I stopped at Z80 so I don't know if that was > also a pleasant ISA. The Z80 was quite nice; I wrote heaps of programs for it, and I even found an ANSI C Compiler for it (Hi-Tech as I recall; BDS-C was, well, you could barely call it "C")[*]. I compiled a number of Unix programs... > The x86 stuff is about as far away from PDP-11 as you can get. Required > to know it, but so unpleasant. The x86 architecture is utterly brain-dead; I mean, what's wrong with a linear address space? I think it was JohnG who said "segment registers are for worms". > I have to admit that I haven't looked at ARM assembler, the M1 is making > me rethink that. Anyone have an opinion on where ARM lies in the pleasant > to unpleasant scale? I've been looking at the ARM; it seems quite nice at first glance. > --lm who misses comp.arch back when CPU people hung out there Indeed. I gave up on USENET when the joint got flooded by spammers; I still have my "cancel" script somewhere. [*] I think it was Henry Spencer who said (in an unrelated matter): "Somehow to be called a C compiler, I think it ought at least be able to compile C". -- Dave, who ran aus.radio.amateur.*