[TUHS] Copyright on 4.2BSD?

[TUHS] Copyright on 4.2BSD?

[arnold]

Hi All.

I'm working on revising my book on basic *nix programming, and for
the new chapter on sockets, I want to include some code from 4.2 BSD.

Is there a copyright file somewhere for that code?  I'm sure it's
copyright the Regents of the University of California, but I'd like
to include the text of the copyright in the book, so that everything's
clear.

Thanks!

Arnold

[TUHS] Re: Copyright on 4.2BSD?

[Matt Day]

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An interesting TUHS thread from 2022 about the origins of the BSD license:
https://www.tuhs.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/tuhs@tuhs.org/thread/G354W5YHSHXY2NZ4BYJEKQECTUMK7X7I/#7EWKS5KWJAS7YWQ7AVXDME4Y5XGBXXM2

On Sat, Oct 12, 2024 at 11:47 PM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:

> Hi All.
>
> I'm working on revising my book on basic *nix programming, and for
> the new chapter on sockets, I want to include some code from 4.2 BSD.
>
> Is there a copyright file somewhere for that code?  I'm sure it's
> copyright the Regents of the University of California, but I'd like
> to include the text of the copyright in the book, so that everything's
> clear.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Arnold
>

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[TUHS] Re: Copyright on 4.2BSD?

[Steve Nickolas]

On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:

> Hi All.
>
> I'm working on revising my book on basic *nix programming, and for
> the new chapter on sockets, I want to include some code from 4.2 BSD.
>
> Is there a copyright file somewhere for that code?  I'm sure it's
> copyright the Regents of the University of California, but I'd like
> to include the text of the copyright in the book, so that everything's
> clear.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Arnold
>

From what I would ascertain it would, logically, fall under a copyright to 
UCB if it comes from UCB, and under 32V's (questionable) copyright if not.

Oldest BSD I have any sort of code for is 4.3 and at least by that point 
most of the Berkeley stuff is marked with this copyright string:

/*
  * Copyright (c) 198x Regents of the University of California.
  * All rights reserved.  The Berkeley software License Agreement
  * specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution.
  */

Some earlier stuff only has the first line.

-uso.

[TUHS] Re: Copyright on 4.2BSD?

[arnold]

Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
>
> > Hi All.
> >
> > I'm working on revising my book on basic *nix programming, and for
> > the new chapter on sockets, I want to include some code from 4.2 BSD.
> >
> > Is there a copyright file somewhere for that code?  I'm sure it's
> > copyright the Regents of the University of California, but I'd like
> > to include the text of the copyright in the book, so that everything's
> > clear.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Arnold
> >
>
> From what I would ascertain it would, logically, fall under a copyright to 
> UCB if it comes from UCB, and under 32V's (questionable) copyright if not.
>
> Oldest BSD I have any sort of code for is 4.3 and at least by that point 
> most of the Berkeley stuff is marked with this copyright string:
>
> /*
>   * Copyright (c) 198x Regents of the University of California.
>   * All rights reserved.  The Berkeley software License Agreement
>   * specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution.
>   */
>
> Some earlier stuff only has the first line.
>
> -uso.

Thanks.  But, ... is there some sort of copying permissions to
include also?  Or is it the same as 32V and covered by Caldera license?

Arnold

[TUHS] Re: Copyright on 4.2BSD?

[Warner Losh]

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On Sun, Oct 13, 2024 at 2:31 AM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:

> Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All.
> > >
> > > I'm working on revising my book on basic *nix programming, and for
> > > the new chapter on sockets, I want to include some code from 4.2 BSD.
> > >
> > > Is there a copyright file somewhere for that code?  I'm sure it's
> > > copyright the Regents of the University of California, but I'd like
> > > to include the text of the copyright in the book, so that everything's
> > > clear.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Arnold
> > >
> >
> > From what I would ascertain it would, logically, fall under a copyright
> to
> > UCB if it comes from UCB, and under 32V's (questionable) copyright if
> not.
> >
> > Oldest BSD I have any sort of code for is 4.3 and at least by that point
> > most of the Berkeley stuff is marked with this copyright string:
> >
> > /*
> >   * Copyright (c) 198x Regents of the University of California.
> >   * All rights reserved.  The Berkeley software License Agreement
> >   * specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution.
> >   */
> >
> > Some earlier stuff only has the first line.
> >
> > -uso.
>
> Thanks.  But, ... is there some sort of copying permissions to
> include also?  Or is it the same as 32V and covered by Caldera license?
>

No. For 4.2BSD we're firmly in the 'we send this to anybody that has an AT&T
license only; era, and in such an era, there's not going to be clarity.I
don't think the
regents have made a definitive statement regarding code from this era after
the
historic Unix license from Caldera. The next best thing is looking a the
model license
that most people signed ot get the 4.2BSD tapes and see what that says.  A
quick google
search didn't turn up the model 4.2BSD license agreement, but it's likely
similar to
https://cm-bell-labs.github.io/who/dmr/bsdi/BSD_ATT_License.pdf which sets
forth
the terms of copying within AT&T, but is likely broadly similar to other
licensees now
that  either there's no 32V copyright or there's permission to copy 32V for
these
purposes. The most salient part is likely:

	  Proper Credit and Recognition.  In the use of any part of 4.2
	  BSD and 4.3 BSD, AT&T will give appropriate credit to the
	  University and the Electrical Engineering and Computer
	  Sciences Department at the Berkeley Campus of the University
	  of California and Other Contributors for their roles in its
	  development and will require sublicensees to give such
	  credit.

	  If AT&T is providing documentation similar to that which is
	  provided with 4.2 BSD and 4.3 BSD, notices similar to those
	  included in that documentation suffice to satisfy this
	  requirement. If AT&T is providing new documentation, this

	  requirement will be satisfied if each document includes the
	  following statement:  'This software and documentation is
	  based in part on the Fourth Berkeley Software distribution
	  under license from The Regents of the University of
	  California.  We acknowledge the following individuals and
	  institutions for their role in its development:  [insert
	  names of individuals and institutions which appear in the
	  documentation provided to AT&T as part of 4.2 BSD and 4.3 BSD
	  for those portions of said Distribution used by AT&T.]'


This suggests you should include the phrase above, or one that's similar to it
that's more appropriate for the context, to comply with the spirit of
what was most likely
in those original 4.2BSD agreements. I don't think it will get any
better clarity than
guessing based on this document that came to light as part of the AT&T
litigation.
I believe this is independent of the 32V determination because the
copyright to the
changes hasn't ever been challenged. However, since it's just snippets
of code that's
otherwise available, and since you're using it in a work that's
clearly an academic critique
or criticism of a de-minimis portion of 4.2BSD, it may fall under
'fair use'  and not need
any specific permission. Given the release of 4.2BSD was 40 years ago
or so, and the
regents have generally been uninterested in policing the license
compliance of 4.2 code,
i suspect that an acknowledgement would suffice to keep them from
doing anything. It
would also comply with the general intent of the licenses and
practices at the time and
even if all that failed, there's several other reasons that would make
such use in your
book easily defensible.

Sorry I didn't have a better, easy and clear answer.
Warner

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[TUHS] Re: Copyright on 4.2BSD?

[Al Kossow]

Has anyone gone back to the original BBN/ARPA code UCB started with to look for commonalities?
Does it still exist? Does anyone care?

[TUHS] Re: Copyright on 4.2BSD?

[Arno Griffioen via TUHS]

On Sat, Oct 12, 2024 at 11:46:49PM -0600, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> I'm working on revising my book on basic *nix programming, and for
> the new chapter on sockets, I want to include some code from 4.2 BSD.

Does 'code from 4.2 BSD' mean snippets of actual kernel code or more 
like examples of BSD-specific syscalls and networking (socket(), select())
and such?

In the latter case you could see if you can still get a copy of the old 
(1986) book 'C Programming in the Berkeley Unix Environment' which was pretty 
much filled with BSD specific stuff and how that was perhaps done in 
attributing the correct parties:

https://www.abebooks.com/9780131097605/Programming-Berkeley-Unix-Environment-Horspool-0131097601/plp

Unfortunately my copy got lost over some moves, so I no longer have one
to look it up...

							Bye, Arno.