[TUHS] Montgomery's emacs

[TUHS] Montgomery's emacs

[Pat Barron]

I'm reminded since Erik brought this up...

Is Warren Montgomery's emacs available, like, anywhere...  I used it long 
ago on V7m, and I had it on my AT&T 7300 (where it was available as a 
binary package).

It's the first emacs I ever used.  I don't recall where we got it for the 
PDP-11.  On our system, we had it permission-restricted so only certain 
trusted users could use it - basically, people who could be trusted not to 
be in it all the time, and not to use it while the system was busy.  We 
had an 11/40 with 128K, and 2 or 3 people trying to use Mongomery emacs 
would basically crush the system...

In the absence of that, I've always found JOVE to be the next best thing, 
as far as being lightweight and sufficently emacs-like.  I actually 
install it on almost all of my Linux systems.  Did JOVE ever run on V7?

--Pat.

[TUHS] Old Emacs

[Lawrence Stewart]

I have a copy of the sources for Dave Conroy’s microemacs, if there’s any interest.
It is certainly the smallest one I know about.

I suppose it was quite late to the emacs party, dating from 1989 or so.  The sources include support for Ultrix and various mini and micro systems, plus a few terminal types.

I used to use to use it on small and partially installed systems for editing config files.   This role seems to be taken by nano in the modern day.

I asked him once how to change the key bindings and Dave said “You use the Change Configuration command.”  “On Unix it is abbreviated as cc.”

-L

Re: [TUHS] Old Emacs

[Clem Cole]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 273 bytes --]

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 11:11 AM Lawrence Stewart <stewart@serissa.com>
wrote:

> I asked him once how to change the key bindings and Dave said “You use the
> Change Configuration command.”  “On Unix it is abbreviated as cc.”

+1 a true hackers answer.
ᐧ

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1122 bytes --]

Re: [TUHS] Old Emacs

[Christopher Browne]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1430 bytes --]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 11:11, Lawrence Stewart <stewart@serissa.com> wrote:

> I have a copy of the sources for Dave Conroy’s microemacs, if there’s any
> interest.
> It is certainly the smallest one I know about.
>
> I suppose it was quite late to the emacs party, dating from 1989 or so.
> The sources include support for Ultrix and various mini and micro systems,
> plus a few terminal types.
>
>
There's some pretty decent discussion of forks of this here...
https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MicroEmacs
Perhaps also see...
http://texteditors.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?MicroEmacs

I see the torvalds "fork"; it looks like it gets a patch every year or so.
https://github.com/torvalds/uemacs

By the way, JOVE is still maintained, albeit not super actively.
http://www.cs.toronto.edu/pub/hugh/jove-dev/


> I used to use to use it on small and partially installed systems for
> editing config files.   This role seems to be taken by nano in the modern
> day.
>
> I asked him once how to change the key bindings and Dave said “You use the
> Change Configuration command.”  “On Unix it is abbreviated as cc.”


Love it!!!

I liked that about the configuration of wmx (a window manger), although
less enthralled at the "change configuration command" being "g++"
-- 
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2316 bytes --]

Re: [TUHS] Old Emacs

[Rodolfo García Peñas (kix)]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 436 bytes --]

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Tuesday, 11 de June de 2019 17:15, Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 11:11 AM Lawrence Stewart <stewart@serissa.com> wrote:
>
>> I asked him once how to change the key bindings and Dave said “You use the Change Configuration command.”  “On Unix it is abbreviated as cc.”
>
> +1 a true hackers answer.
> ᐧ

Nice email signature quote :-)

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1488 bytes --]

Re: [TUHS] Old Emacs

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Lawrence Stewart wrote:
> I have a copy of the sources for Dave Conroy’s microemacs, if there’s
> any interest.

I got version 30 from Conroy, from 1986 by his estimate.  If yours
are older, I'm interested.

Re: [TUHS] Old Emacs

[Lawrence Stewart]

> On 2019, Jun 11, at 1:23 PM, Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:
> 
> Lawrence Stewart wrote:
>> I have a copy of the sources for Dave Conroy’s microemacs, if there’s
>> any interest.
> 
> I got version 30 from Conroy, from 1986 by his estimate.  If yours
> are older, I'm interested.

It is hard to tell, I have about 20 copies, on backups of backups of backups.
I’ll see if I can untangle them.  We can always ask Dave too.  He’s in 
Half Moon Bay, CA these days.

The log file from one of mine goes from V1 on 1-Jan-85 to 28-Sep-87 so likely 
yours is older. V30 is listed as 14-Apr-86

-L

Re: [TUHS] Montgomery's emacs

[Clem Cole]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1359 bytes --]

Reading Lar's emacs thread refilled the memory cache:  s/Toolkit/ToolChest/


ᐧ

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:12 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> I thought much of the exptools went into something whos name was like the
> AT&T Unix Toolkit Library (that Summit maintained).   It was subscription
> oriented (you paid per tool, but had an unlimited license for it).  This
> was how Korn Shell for $2K and a few other things made it out of Bell - I
> think that eventually, ditroff was moved there instead of being a separate
> distribution. I've now forgotten many of the details - there was a
> build/make replacement IIRC that was there also, many of the Jerq tools and
> games like GBACA and some others were in there.  Thinking about it much of
> the support for Jerq (68000) and Teletype version (BLIT/We32000) may have
> been in the Toolkit library.
> ᐧ
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:03 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>     > From: Mary Ann Horton
>>
>>     > Warren's emacs would have been part of the Bell Labs 'exptools'
>>     > (experimental tools) package ... it's possible that's what you have.
>>
>> I don't think so; Warren had been a grad student in our group, and we got
>> it
>> on that basis. I'm pretty sure we didn't have termcap or any of that
>> stuff.
>>
>>    Noel
>>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2866 bytes --]

Re: [TUHS] Montgomery's emacs

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Noel Chiappa writes:
> > Is Warren Montgomery's emacs available, like, anywhere...
>
> I've got a copy on the dump of the MIT PWB system.  [...]  Does anyone
> else have the source, or is mine the only one left?

I have been looking, and all I got so far is something from
http://unixpc.taronga.com/STORE/, and some floppy disk images for the
Unix PC.  Probably binary only.

Re: [TUHS] Montgomery's emacs

[Brad Spencer]

Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> writes:

> I thought much of the exptools went into something whos name was like the
> AT&T Unix Toolkit Library (that Summit maintained).   It was subscription
> oriented (you paid per tool, but had an unlimited license for it).  This
> was how Korn Shell for $2K and a few other things made it out of Bell - I
> think that eventually, ditroff was moved there instead of being a separate
> distribution. I've now forgotten many of the details - there was a
> build/make replacement IIRC that was there also, many of the Jerq tools and
> games like GBACA and some others were in there.  Thinking about it much of
> the support for Jerq (68000) and Teletype version (BLIT/We32000) may have
> been in the Toolkit library.
> ᐧ
>


nmake ??  I think it may have been called.  I touched something that
matches what is being called "exptools" and the like when I was at 6200
Broad St.  We used nmake and ksh extensively in the software project I
was a part of, and I know I had access to the source for an ancient
version of nmake at one point.  And I remember the subscription thing
too and I seem to recall you had to pay per architecture at least by the
time I was exposed to it.  I got the ancient nmake version compiled on
HP-UX 10.x to get part of the product I was a part of building on HP-UX
10.x.  The official HP-UX 10.x version from the subscription service was
expensive, as I remember things.

There was at least one person in the group who used a version of emacs
that was from the same, or related, source.  I never used it, as I
preferred GNU emacs.





-- 
Brad Spencer - brad@anduin.eldar.org - KC8VKS - http://anduin.eldar.org

Re: [TUHS] Montgomery's emacs

[Clem Cole]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1157 bytes --]

I thought much of the exptools went into something whos name was like the
AT&T Unix Toolkit Library (that Summit maintained).   It was subscription
oriented (you paid per tool, but had an unlimited license for it).  This
was how Korn Shell for $2K and a few other things made it out of Bell - I
think that eventually, ditroff was moved there instead of being a separate
distribution. I've now forgotten many of the details - there was a
build/make replacement IIRC that was there also, many of the Jerq tools and
games like GBACA and some others were in there.  Thinking about it much of
the support for Jerq (68000) and Teletype version (BLIT/We32000) may have
been in the Toolkit library.
ᐧ

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:03 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:

>     > From: Mary Ann Horton
>
>     > Warren's emacs would have been part of the Bell Labs 'exptools'
>     > (experimental tools) package ... it's possible that's what you have.
>
> I don't think so; Warren had been a grad student in our group, and we got
> it
> on that basis. I'm pretty sure we didn't have termcap or any of that stuff.
>
>    Noel
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1876 bytes --]

Re: [TUHS] Montgomery's emacs

[Noel Chiappa]

    > From: Mary Ann Horton

    > Warren's emacs would have been part of the Bell Labs 'exptools'
    > (experimental tools) package ... it's possible that's what you have.

I don't think so; Warren had been a grad student in our group, and we got it
on that basis. I'm pretty sure we didn't have termcap or any of that stuff.

   Noel

Re: [TUHS] Montgomery's emacs

[Mary Ann Horton Gmail]

Warren's emacs would have been part of the Bell Labs 'exptools' 
(experimental tools) package, which was an internally distributed 
package of 3rd party software that wasn't part of the standard UNIX 
distributions at the time.  vi/termcap/termlib was also part of exptools.

If exptools isn't preserved anywhere, it would be worthwhile to try to 
find it.  Noel - it's possible that's what you have. I can't find it 
anywhere else easily.

     Mary Ann

On 6/11/19 8:22 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>      > From: Pat Barron
>
>      > Is Warren Montgomery's emacs available, like, anywhere...
>
> I've got a copy on the dump of the MIT PWB system. I'm actually supposed to
> resurrect it for someone, IIRC, (the MIT system was .. idiosyncratic, so it'll
> take a bit of tweaking), but haven't gotten to it yet.
>
> Does anyone else have the source, or is mine the only one left?
>
>       Noel

Re: [TUHS] Montgomery's emacs

[Noel Chiappa]

    > From: Pat Barron

    > Is Warren Montgomery's emacs available, like, anywhere...

I've got a copy on the dump of the MIT PWB system. I'm actually supposed to
resurrect it for someone, IIRC, (the MIT system was .. idiosyncratic, so it'll
take a bit of tweaking), but haven't gotten to it yet.

Does anyone else have the source, or is mine the only one left?

     Noel