From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 12884 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2021 05:22:26 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Jan 2021 05:22:26 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 654BA9C659; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 15:22:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CED799C5E6; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 15:21:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B9E3E9C5E6; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 15:21:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pf1-f179.google.com (mail-pf1-f179.google.com [209.85.210.179]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F6039C5E5 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 15:21:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pf1-f179.google.com with SMTP id t29so8675621pfg.11 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 2021 21:21:22 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:reply-to:subject:to:cc:references:from :organization:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language; bh=HkHEv8zP03WqdZuehBxUbnN8jAS0coUB56/puLdcPYs=; b=pPxkggif8IsxhjbYbcHAgxMWFN2KdTZocvhKNH8EpBk9EjERNepkBexQrfVL2a1Gfo x/X3A6imcQErbZ7UF2IdydJbjP2zLnAD23vMLjqt6Uqhj1caSNbzJEtlVBEC7lZbsc4P n9IYKwkedu1NbQRTvO0bH02Cnx9YNLpTpBNBq0vlQTJHb5LnSGFeA2jVIbHf/Is1JCv1 fsVEiMFQHBPaYJXwmBDwn4jrS+1OYZ5Vd8s0dX0UVQ9sGdlI1z21SziBnhiXqmLtx3ZT r2y+5rpxxTQImi3sVkaB3PaT73QJlnJ36DPXti49VLDcRfLcz30Qb1pE6jR+vk8vYAiV 6DIw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533oUjsW4DlueGYzYaTIKTXfigz9l5nsy4m5n+lc0T6QUXE8XKfp 3h3jtphVZqgQtV0SN5uce2imv1A0qS58Ng== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxZ6NQRMlybY/+XkAdt3P+b5Cj+KEpv3+UKp6AwIQkdi6PFlgGGTKBOujSowZMyREZIkHt0sg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:5065:: with SMTP id q37mr7729146pgl.65.1611120081464; Tue, 19 Jan 2021 21:21:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:601:a000:8c0:507b:1458:ca1b:56e? ([2601:601:a000:8c0:507b:1458:ca1b:56e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id fu17sm691950pjb.37.2021.01.19.21.21.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Jan 2021 21:21:20 -0800 (PST) To: Warner Losh References: <66d2d6e9-921c-8039-1d84-0461f9192a28@osta.com> From: Heinz Lycklama Organization: Open Systems Technology Associates Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2021 21:21:19 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A372CD78098D6D858B5BE2FB" Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [TUHS] ACM Fellow, Ken Thompson X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: heinz@osta.com Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A372CD78098D6D858B5BE2FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No relation to either V32 or V7. When we started the project we used the existing version of UNIX that we were selling on the PDP 11/45 and PDP 11/70 computers. I believe it was V6. I wrote a lot of documentation and gave a lot of talks and presentations on the system, but never kept any of the documentation myself. There may be some documentation in someone's archives but I did not keep any. Heinz On 1/19/2021 2:33 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 3:30 PM Heinz Lycklama > wrote: > > INTERACTIVE Systems Corp. (ISC) also ported a UNIX system to an > early VAX 11/750 computer running DEC's VMS operating system > starting in mid- 1978. ISC was in the business of porting the > UNIX operating system to many different computer hardware > architectures, mini-computers to mainframes, but the first > complete UNIX system port was actually done to the DEC VMS > system. We delivered the first UNIX on VMS system to a customer > in the Fall of 1979.  Many of these systems were delivered to > customers in North America as well as in Europe well into > the mid-1980's. > > > What relationship, if any, does this have to V32? Or maybe "Was that > based on V7 or V32?" is the right question... > > Also, this wasn't something that I had on my list... Any chance > there's a paper / article / etc on this? > > And thank you for your remembrance... > > Warner > > Heinz > > On 1/15/2021 6:29 PM, Warner Losh wrote: >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 3:18 PM John Cowan > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 3:14 PM Dave Horsfall >> > wrote: >> >> > Whose foray?  Not DEC's.  Eunice was built at SRI and >> sold by the >> > Wollongong Group, who must have had Downundrian >> connections. >> >>  It was >> originally developed ca. 1981 by David Kashtan at SRI[1] >> and later >> maintained and marketed by The Wollongong Group.'' >> >> >> Where's the disagreement? >> >> >> Eunice post-dated DEC's first Unix offering by several years. >> They sold V7 and later V7M before rebranding it to Ultrix. Eunice >> was 4.1BSD (later 4.2 and 4.3) that Dr  Kashtan grafted into VMS >> in ways that... provoke strong feelings among reviewers...  The >> TCP/IP stack that was inside of Eunice would form the basis for >> Wollongong's TCP/IP offerings on VMS... A more refined version, >> also done I think by Kashtan, was marketed by TGV and there was >> always much rivalry between the two companies... >> >> Wollongong got its license because they were the marketing >> company formed to market Dr. Miller's port to Interdata, and they >> later branched out significantly because their license was so >> special...  Or at least that's the story they told customers and >> internally... I never saw the original license to know... >> >> Warner > --------------A372CD78098D6D858B5BE2FB Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No relation to either V32 or V7. When we started the project
we used the existing version of UNIX that we were selling on
the PDP 11/45 and PDP 11/70 computers. I believe it was V6.
I wrote a lot of documentation and gave a lot of talks and
presentations on the system, but never kept any of the
documentation myself. There may be some documentation
in someone's archives but I did not keep any.

Heinz

On 1/19/2021 2:33 PM, Warner Losh wrote:


On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 3:30 PM Heinz Lycklama <heinz@osta.com> wrote:
INTERACTIVE Systems Corp. (ISC) also ported a UNIX system to an
early VAX 11/750 computer running DEC's VMS operating system
starting in mid- 1978. ISC was in the business of porting the
UNIX operating system to many different computer hardware
architectures, mini-computers to mainframes, but the first
complete UNIX system port was actually done to the DEC VMS
system. We delivered the first UNIX on VMS system to a customer
in the Fall of 1979.  Many of these systems were delivered to
customers in North America as well as in Europe well into
the mid-1980's.

What relationship, if any, does this have to V32? Or maybe "Was that based on V7 or V32?" is the right question...

Also, this wasn't something that I had on my list... Any chance there's a paper / article / etc on this?

And thank you for your remembrance...

Warner
 
Heinz

On 1/15/2021 6:29 PM, Warner Losh wrote:


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 3:18 PM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 3:14 PM Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:
 
> Whose foray?  Not DEC's.  Eunice was built at SRI and sold by the
> Wollongong Group, who must have had Downundrian connections.  
 
 It was
originally developed ca. 1981 by David Kashtan at SRI[1] and later
maintained and marketed by The Wollongong Group.''

Where's the disagreement?

Eunice post-dated DEC's first Unix offering by several years. They sold V7 and later V7M before rebranding it to Ultrix. Eunice was 4.1BSD (later 4.2 and 4.3) that Dr  Kashtan grafted into VMS in ways that... provoke strong feelings among reviewers...  The TCP/IP stack that was inside of Eunice would form the basis for Wollongong's TCP/IP offerings on VMS... A more refined version, also done I think by Kashtan, was marketed by TGV and there was always much rivalry between the two companies... 

Wollongong got its license because they were the marketing company formed to market Dr. Miller's port to Interdata, and they later branched out significantly because their license was so special...  Or at least that's the story they told customers and internally... I never saw the original license to know...

Warner


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