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[99.139.148.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i20sm2199264otl.78.2021.02.05.19.07.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Feb 2021 19:07:18 -0800 (PST) To: Larry McVoy , Rico Pajarola References: <20210130222854.GN4227@mcvoy.com> <20210130231119.GA33905@eureka.lemis.com> <20210131022500.GU4227@mcvoy.com> <9504e27d-d976-9681-6b97-aa87d124fc43@gmail.com> <20210206025553.GY13701@mcvoy.com> From: Will Senn Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 21:07:18 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210206025553.GY13701@mcvoy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [TUHS] FreeBSD behind the times? (was: Favorite unix design principles?) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 2/5/21 8:55 PM, Larry McVoy wrote: > I'm gonna call Bill tomorrow and get his take again, that's Bill Moore > one of the two main guys who did ZFS. > > This whole thread is sort of silly. There are the users of ZFS who love > it for what it does for them. I have no argument with them. Then there > are the much smaller, depressingly so, group of people who care about OS > design that think ZFS took a step backwards. > > I think Dennis might have stepped in here, if he was still with us, and > had some words. > > I think Dennis would have brought us back to lets talk about the kernel > and what is right. ZFS is useful, no doubt, but it is not right from > a kernel guy's point of view. > > I miss Dennis. Larry, Now, after the last 50 emails or so on this topic, I get it :). At least, I understand that technical decision were made in creating ZFS that were likely ill considered, the impact of those changes dubbed insignificant, or even possibly sound design principles ignored. It's debatable whether or not these decisions were deliberately contrary to good OS design, but I appreciate your and the other experts hanging in there and explaining your perspectives. I'm a systems guy, so a lot of the detailed OS discussions go over my head, but after enough of them, it kinda makes sense. At least, now, I'll pay closer attention to the ZFS developer list discussions :). Will