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Tue, 30 Oct 2018 15:01:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=yaccman.com; h=message-id :from:to:cc:in-reply-to:subject:date:content-type:mime-version; s=yaccman.com; bh=Li3qkG71fp63DaNTcjUJmD9S/zM=; b=rkynuCd+OAKnk 1HyrnswG1wSp8/g9RgJ/7VNgdIihnhUgRp0gNt55CperU/OW8fTiYbGBVS41ZOUi JSd+UEl7XJDqoveODycITBgOz+EQ4Duo+d4cj//l/qweH3PeNgQWGXbi3O4s0fdF Kz9BE2YbKmhiajPme2GTGz49unPfHg= Received: from localhost (ip-66-33-200-4.dreamhost.com [66.33.200.4]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: scj@yaccman.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a76.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E23C880A00; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 15:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a76 From: "Steve Johnson" To: david@kdbarto.org, "Steve Johnson" X-Mailer: Atmail 7.8.0.2 X-Originating-IP: 10.35.42.211 in-reply-to: <5DB0D670-6B65-4558-9CCE-7F80FE5B62BA@kdbarto.org> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 15:01:55 -0700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_f8783c822ee316da8bc4b18d5be5ff88" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtkedriedtgdduheegucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefkhffvofhijgfuffgtggesrgdtreerredtjeenucfhrhhomhepfdfuthgvvhgvucflohhhnhhsohhnfdcuoehstghjseihrggttghmrghnrdgtohhmqeenucfkphepieeirdeffedrvddttddrgedpuddtrdefhedrgedvrddvuddunecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehlohgtrghlhhhoshhtpdhinhgvthepieeirdeffedrvddttddrgedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthhepfdfuthgvvhgvucflohhhnhhsohhnfdcuoehstghjseihrggttghmrghnrdgtohhmqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehstghjseihrggttghmrghnrdgtohhmpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehtuhhhshesthhuhhhsrdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd Subject: Re: [TUHS] Archaic yacc C grammar X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --=_f8783c822ee316da8bc4b18d5be5ff88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The closest I came was when we went from a single namespace for all=0Ast= ructure names to a namespace for each structure, and references that=0Aw= ere checked using the pointer type of the structure pointer.=0AMy code w= as a nightmare, and some of the old Unix code was at least a=0Abad dream= .=C2=A0=C2=A0 I had to start out pretending to have a single=0Anamespace= , but when I saw the use of an actual structure pointer I had=0A=0A=0Ato= do it the new way.=C2=A0 As I recall when I saw something that would=0A= not have been legal with the old rules (for example, two different=0Astr= uctures with the same element name but different offsets) then I=0Athrew= =0A the switch and demanded the new way.=C2=A0 =0A=0AThere were certainl= y system changes that were flash cut.=C2=A0 For=0Aexample, changing the= file system format -- there was no attempt to=0Aallow both, which meant= that the conversion program got one shot to=0Aget it right.=C2=A0 And i= t didn't always manage that...=0A=0ASteve=0A=0A----- Original Message --= ---=0AFrom:=0A david@kdbarto.org=0A=0ATo:=0A"Steve Johnson" =0ACc:=0A"The Eunuchs Hysterical Society" =0ASent:= =0AMon, 29 Oct 2018 12:02:29 -0700=0ASubject:=0ARe: [TUHS] Archaic yacc= C grammar=0A=0AOn Oct 29, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Steve Johnson =0Awrote:=0A=0AWe actually had a pretty good system for making= changes like that.=C2=A0=0AFirst, we would change=0Athe compiler to acc= ept both the old and the new.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Then we would=0Aproduce a warn= ing=0Athat on a particular date the old would no longer work.=C2=A0 Then= we made=0Athe old an error=0Aand printed a message about how to fix it.= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Eventually, we just let=0Ait be a syntax error.=0AThis proc= ess was applied many times on the way from typeless B to=0Astrongly type= d C.=0A=0AWas there ever a time when a change was desired that you could= n=E2=80=99t=0Aaccept both=0Athe old and the new?=0A=0ADavid=0A=0A =0A=0A= Links:=0A------=0A[1] mailto:scj@yaccman.com=0A --=_f8783c822ee316da8bc4b18d5be5ff88 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The closest I came was when we went from a single namespace= for all structure names to a namespace for each structure, and referenc= es that were checked using the pointer type of the structure pointer.
My code was a nightmare, and some of the old Unix code was at le= ast a bad dream.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I had to start out pretending to have a sin= gle namespace, but when I saw the use of an actual structure pointer I h= ad
to do it the new way.=C2=A0 As I recall when I saw som= ething that would not have been legal with the old rules (for example, t= wo different structures with the same element name but different offsets= ) then I threw
the switch and demanded the new way.=C2=A0

There were certainly system changes that were= flash cut.=C2=A0 For example, changing the file system format -- there= was no attempt to allow both, which meant that the conversion program g= ot one shot to get it right.=C2=A0 And it didn't always manage that...

Steve



----- Original Message -----
From:
david@kd= barto.org

To:
"Steve Johnson" <scj@yaccman.com&g= t;
Cc:
"The Eunuchs Hysterical Society" <tuhs@tuhs.o= rg>
Sent:
Mon= , 29 Oct 2018 12:02:29 -0700
Subject:
Re: [TUHS] Arc= haic yacc C grammar



On Oct 29, 2018= , at 10:52 AM, Steve Johnson <scj@= yaccman.com> wrote:

=
We actually had a pretty good system for making changes like t= hat.=C2=A0 First, we would change
the compiler to accept both= the old and the new.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Then we would produce a warning
<= div>that on a particular date the old would no longer work.=C2=A0 Then w= e made the old an error
and printed a message about how to fix= it.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Eventually, we just let it be a syntax error.
This process was applied many times on the way from typeless B to stron= gly typed C.

Was there= ever a time when a change was desired that you couldn=E2=80=99t accept= both
the old and the new?

=09David

=0A --=_f8783c822ee316da8bc4b18d5be5ff88--