From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 12447 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2021 22:51:48 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 24 Dec 2021 22:51:48 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E35189CF32; Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:51:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE8F9CC01; Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:51:18 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; secure) header.d=tnetconsulting.net header.i=@tnetconsulting.net header.b="sPIWHTE2"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2AFFA9CC01; Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:51:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: from tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net [45.33.28.24]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B7919465C for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:51:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from Contact-TNet-Consulting-Abuse-for-assistance by tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-3) with ESMTPSA id 1BOMpEgg015929 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 16:51:15 -0600 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=tnetconsulting.net; s=2019; t=1640386275; bh=5OOJOX1kH9Gz//60OqrTI45eZVE+I2jtmntvrlvEsLc=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Cc:Content-Disposition: Content-Language:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Date:From: In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:References:Reply-To: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Sender:Subject:To: User-Agent; b=sPIWHTE2AASlVWCD3keyqXjLqeT/WSOWKrlpAHZa4bP1tN1tE6fwJZHqu4myJfQHA y8aLxzyuW/LCV/wJVsNf1+uTo4EE6gtsAZx0cU6FH/0ChSH/U7t887yZ9J/NP/AyJ3 cE36g+V0C9ZgaaXpaOoBeYX3+6vkGtYORL1g/q08= To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <20201222224306.GA28478@minnie.tuhs.org> <202012230546.0BN5kDwe028815@sdf.org> <1653639b-8e41-7437-8c0e-32564dfdd788@laposte.net> <20211221162139.GP24180@mcvoy.com> <9e3b9669-6ffc-2701-bdcb-e287495419c0@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Organization: TNet Consulting Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 15:51:29 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms080308040603090500010309" Subject: Re: [TUHS] ksh88 source code? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Grant Taylor via TUHS Reply-To: Grant Taylor Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080308040603090500010309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 12/21/21 11:23 PM, jason-tuhs@shalott.net wrote: > As an end user, you would not care. That tends to explain why I've not personally cared. > As a vendor or distributor, you would care.=C2=A0 Anyone doing an OS or= other=20 > software distribution (think the BSDs, of course; but also think Apple = > or Microsoft) needs to care.=C2=A0 Anyone selling a hardware device wit= h=20 > embedded software (think switches/routers; think IOT devices; think=20 > consumer devices like DVRs; etc) needs to care.=C2=A0 GPL (or similar=20 > "virally" licensed) software carries legal implications for anyone=20 > selling or distributing products that contain such software; and this=20 > can be a motivation to use software with less-restrictive license terms= =2E Okay. My limited understanding is that the GPLed parts of the product must be=20 made available. But I'm not aware that using GPLed parts means that=20 /everything/ /else/ must also be made available. Also, I believe /made/ /available/ means that it must be accessible or=20 provided when asked. Thus it does not mean that the GPLed code needs to = be shipped with the product. > I'm aware of a few random features that are in ksh93 but not other=20 > shells (random, trivial, example that I saw just today*: "printf=20 > %(FORMAT)T"). That said, my first impulse would have been to say no,=20 > there aren't any meaningful (technical) advantages to ksh over bash -- = > except that it seems there's still some amount of active development=20 > going on in ksh: The biggest motivation I had in a previous job was to make sure that my=20 account's shell was set to a shell that lived on the root file system. I could easily have that shell test to see if my preferred shell was=20 available and start or exec it. That way I could still log in if the=20 file system with my preferred shell was not mounted. As if I needed to=20 address the underlying issue that was preventing the desired shell from=20 being accessible. E.g. /usr/bin/bash wasn't available b/c /usr wasn't=20 automatically mounted at boot. > So I guess, for some people at least, there are indeed reasons to prefe= r=20 > it, including (according to users in those github issues) performance. At my last job I helped administer some systems that didn't have any=20 shells other than was was in the base OS installation. (We won't talk=20 about why.) > On the licensing front, the GPL is an issue for bash; but zsh is=20 > available as a more modern, fully-featured shell that avoids any GPL=20 > issues.=C2=A0 This is why Apple switched the default shell in OSX from = bash=20 > to zsh: they wanted to avoid the GPLv3.=C2=A0 Previously, they had been= =20 > shipping the last GPLv2 version of bash, which was from 2006.=C2=A0 Acc= ording=20 > to this blog, they've been avoiding any GPLv3 code and actively working= =20 > to remove even GPLv2 code in OSX for quite a while: That makes sense. > * bash seems to recognize %(FORMAT)T, but only takes epoch seconds as a= n=20 > argument.=C2=A0 ksh93 takes anything vaguely date-like.=C2=A0 zsh and p= dksh don't=20 > recognize it at all. Interesting. Thank you for the informative reply Jason. --=20 Grant. . . . unix || die --------------ms080308040603090500010309 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC CzowggUiMIIECqADAgECAhEAn5X6cf7kRk2GDx9LLhnqAzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADCBljEL MAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2Fs Zm9yZDEYMBYGA1UEChMPU2VjdGlnbyBMaW1pdGVkMT4wPAYDVQQDEzVTZWN0aWdvIFJTQSBD bGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTAeFw0yMTExMTUwMDAw MDBaFw0yMjExMTUyMzU5NTlaMCsxKTAnBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWGmd0YXlsb3JAdG5ldGNvbnN1 bHRpbmcubmV0MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAzOnBjTJUlBTzN81c PlYErJc9kEbTI/hXq0NA6ZoG4VM6puYTEXtITANjgX+NRwwHjldESnC8dvh6Mx5ckEk9sWoD l8Yr/dWhF3s4fGxAX5ziOeuBI/yX7rKJn6DOwclV3C6dyt3zrLB6LOiF4gA+lk/o3EbOwoPh 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