From: Luther Johnson <luther.johnson@makerlisp.com>
To: tuhs@tuhs.org
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' ??? The Register
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 18:11:39 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <c9319073-6766-11f2-d760-b23910964ab1@makerlisp.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20240614005902.GD28495@mcvoy.com>
I believe there is a Debian package you can install after installing
Debian that reverts to sysvinit, removes systemd. There is also a
configuration that leaves systemd in place but lets you use the sysvinit
scripts and forget (well for most people, most uses) that systemd is
there. I have the latter style of installation on my server, but I was
thinking of going the full no-systemd route sometime.
On 06/13/2024 05:59 PM, Larry McVoy wrote:
> This is all well and good but what I, and I suspect other boomers like me,
> are looking for, is something like Ubuntu without systemd. I'm a xubuntu
> guy (Ubuntu with a lighter weight desktop), but whatever. Ubuntu is fine,
> everything works there.
>
> So is there an "Everything just works" distro without systemd? A guy can
> hope but I suspect not.
>
> I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass but I'm 62, I prefer to spend my
> effort on fishing on the ocean, I'm not some young guy that wants to
> put in a ton of hours on my Linux install, I like Linux because it is
> Unix and it is trivial to install. Windows? Hours and hours of finding
> drivers after you find some USB network connector that Windows knows?
> No thanks. *BSD - have you installed one of those? It's a trip back
> to the 1980s, those installers are fine for BSD developers but just suck
> compared to Linux. Mainstream Linux just works.
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 10:27:29AM +1000, Alexis wrote:
>> "Alan D. Salewski" <ads@salewski.email> writes:
>>
>>> I'm interested in hearing about other options in this space,
>>> too.
>> i'm currently running Gentoo+OpenRC as my daily driver, with OpenRC an
>> 'official' Gentoo option.
>>
>> https://www.gentoo.org/
>>
>> Previously i was running Void+s6/66, after having been running Void+runit,
>> with runit being Void's default system (at least at the time).
>>
>> https://voidlinux.org/
>>
>> Artix is an Arch-based non-systemd distro, with support for OpenRC, runit,
>> s6 and dinit.
>>
>> https://artixlinux.org/
>>
>> Obarun is an Arch-based distro using 66, which is roughly a 'wrapper' for
>> s6, providing declarative syntax for service definition.
>>
>> https://wiki.obarun.org/
>>
>> Not a distro, but the s6-overlay project allows using s6 as PID 1 in Docker
>> containers:
>>
>> https://github.com/just-containers/s6-overlay
>>
>> The developer of nosh has a page outlining the know problems with Sys V rc:
>>
>> https://jdebp.uk/FGA/system-5-rc-problems.html
>>
>> The developer of dinit has written a nice comparison of various non-systemd
>> systems providing init / service supervision / service management:
>>
>> https://github.com/davmac314/dinit/blob/master/doc/COMPARISON
>>
>> The developer of s6 has pages:
>>
>> * explaining his perspective on various non-systemd systems:
>>
>> https://skarnet.org/software/s6/why.html
>>
>> * providing a general overview of s6 itself:
>>
>> https://skarnet.org/software/s6/overview.html
>>
>> * discussing s6's approach to 'socket activation', which uses file
>> descriptors:
>>
>> https://skarnet.org/software/s6/socket-activation.html
>>
>> (s6 is the system i'm most familiar with in this space, not least because
>> i'm the porter and maintainer of mdoc(7) versions of the documentation for
>> various parts of the s6/skaware ecosystem.)
>>
>>
>> Alexis.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-06-14 1:11 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 174+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-06-13 14:56 [TUHS] Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Charles H Sauer (he/him)
2024-06-13 15:33 ` [TUHS] " Dan Cross
2024-06-13 15:35 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' ??? " Larry McVoy
2024-06-13 15:41 ` Alan D. Salewski
2024-06-13 15:55 ` Steve Nickolas
2024-06-13 15:39 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Clem Cole
2024-06-13 16:47 ` Arrigo Triulzi via TUHS
2024-06-13 18:39 ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-06-13 18:45 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' ??? " Mychaela Falconia
2024-06-14 8:59 ` Ralph Corderoy
2024-06-13 18:54 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Dan Cross
2024-06-12 19:29 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' " Greg A. Woods
2024-06-13 20:03 ` Dan Cross
2024-06-13 17:07 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-14 14:17 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2024-06-16 5:48 ` Alexis
2024-06-15 8:48 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-16 19:44 ` Clem Cole
2024-06-17 0:10 ` Peter Yardley
2024-06-17 0:29 ` Clem Cole
2024-06-17 1:01 ` Alexis
2024-06-17 1:21 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-17 1:25 ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-17 1:32 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-17 19:21 ` Stuff Received
2024-06-17 19:28 ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-17 22:34 ` Steve Nickolas
2024-06-16 7:57 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-17 23:44 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-18 0:06 ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-18 22:44 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-19 2:33 ` David Arnold
2024-06-18 1:52 ` Steve Nickolas
2024-06-18 4:52 ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-06-18 22:50 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-18 23:03 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-18 23:27 ` ron minnich
2024-06-19 1:38 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2024-06-19 1:42 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-19 23:28 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-20 5:01 ` Scot Jenkins via TUHS
2024-06-20 5:09 ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-20 5:18 ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-20 18:34 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-20 18:41 ` Adam Thornton
2024-06-20 19:59 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-20 20:12 ` ron minnich
2024-06-20 20:22 ` Adam Thornton
2024-06-20 20:29 ` ron minnich
2024-06-21 15:46 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21 16:06 ` Henry Bent
2024-06-21 16:24 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21 16:40 ` Henry Bent
2024-06-21 16:52 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-21 17:25 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21 17:31 ` Phil Budne
2024-06-21 17:55 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-20 20:19 ` Clem Cole
2024-06-20 20:34 ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-20 21:00 ` ron minnich
2024-06-20 21:53 ` David Arnold
2024-06-20 22:00 ` ron minnich
2024-06-20 22:11 ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-20 22:35 ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-21 13:57 ` Stuff Received
2024-06-20 19:57 ` [TUHS] Version 256.1: Now slightly less likely to delete /home Jim Capp
2024-06-20 8:05 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' The Register Steve Nickolas
2024-06-19 2:38 ` David Arnold
2024-06-19 22:52 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-19 0:08 ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-19 0:46 ` Nevin Liber
2024-06-19 1:00 ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-06-19 3:07 ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-19 3:14 ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-19 3:36 ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-19 6:50 ` arnold
2024-06-19 11:28 ` sjenkin
2024-06-19 9:00 ` Ralph Corderoy
2024-06-19 13:28 ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-19 14:44 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-19 14:53 ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-19 15:08 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-19 15:11 ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-06-19 15:16 ` ron minnich
2024-06-19 15:59 ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-06-19 22:48 ` Kevin Bowling
2024-06-20 5:14 ` David Arnold
2024-06-20 5:32 ` George Michaelson
2024-06-20 6:37 ` Alexis
2024-06-20 7:07 ` David Arnold
2024-06-20 21:07 ` [TUHS] Building programs (Re: " Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-06-20 23:35 ` [TUHS] " Alexis
2024-06-21 0:05 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-21 0:34 ` Alexis
2024-06-21 0:54 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-21 1:06 ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-06-21 1:32 ` Alexis
2024-06-21 1:43 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-21 16:07 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21 0:35 ` Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-06-21 1:15 ` Alexis
2024-06-21 1:43 ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-06-21 13:58 ` Alan D. Salewski
2024-06-21 0:35 ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-21 0:49 ` Alexis
2024-06-21 1:22 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-21 1:44 ` Kevin Bowling
2024-06-21 15:57 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-22 0:04 ` Alexis
2024-06-22 17:53 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-22 18:15 ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-22 21:16 ` David Arnold
2024-06-23 0:29 ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-06-23 18:50 ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-06-23 18:56 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-23 20:15 ` Stuff Received
2024-06-24 14:03 ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-06-24 14:33 ` Dan Cross
2024-06-24 15:17 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-24 15:23 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21 15:41 ` [TUHS] " Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21 15:38 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-20 20:14 ` Alexander Schreiber
2024-06-16 6:43 ` Wesley Parish
2024-06-16 21:56 ` David Arnold
2024-06-16 23:34 ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-16 23:46 ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-17 21:40 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2024-06-17 0:54 ` Åke Nordin
2024-06-18 5:55 ` Alexis
2024-06-18 6:39 ` Michael Kjörling
2024-06-13 19:37 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Alan D. Salewski
2024-06-13 20:05 ` Clem Cole
2024-06-13 20:31 ` Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-06-13 20:06 ` A. P. Garcia
2024-06-13 20:26 ` Jim Capp
2024-06-13 21:35 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' ??? " Larry McVoy
2024-06-14 0:27 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Alexis
2024-06-14 0:59 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' ??? " Larry McVoy
2024-06-14 1:11 ` Luther Johnson [this message]
2024-06-14 1:42 ` Alexis
2024-06-14 4:22 ` ron minnich
2024-06-14 6:54 ` Angel M Alganza
2024-06-14 7:04 ` Dave Horsfall
2024-06-14 7:33 ` arnold
2024-06-14 7:34 ` Andy Kosela
2024-06-14 7:44 ` Dave Horsfall
2024-06-14 11:31 ` Vincenzo Nicosia
2024-06-13 20:26 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Dave Horsfall
2024-06-14 11:32 ` Michael Kjörling
2024-06-14 12:21 ` A. P. Garcia
2024-06-18 12:02 ` Arrigo Triulzi via TUHS
2024-06-23 0:13 ` Dave Horsfall
2024-06-23 1:47 ` Alexis
2024-06-23 19:00 ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-06-23 20:04 ` Alexander Schreiber
2024-06-24 13:50 ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-06-24 14:21 ` Dan Cross
2024-06-26 7:39 ` Kevin Bowling
2024-06-24 15:03 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2024-06-17 0:48 [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' " Noel Chiappa
2024-06-17 1:02 ` Clem Cole
2024-06-17 1:05 ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-17 3:56 ` ron minnich
2024-06-17 3:57 ` ron minnich
2024-06-17 5:41 ` Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-06-17 5:51 ` Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-06-17 15:56 ` Clem Cole
2024-06-17 16:00 ` Clem Cole
2024-06-17 16:59 ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)
2024-06-17 16:43 ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-17 22:49 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2024-06-20 16:45 Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2024-06-20 18:32 ` Kevin Bowling
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